What if Mussolini never came to power?

raharris1973

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no partecipation on the Spanish civil war (and this mean that Franco and co. will lose) and in general less mismanagement due to the fascist, mean that Italy is slighlty better economically than OTL

Why certain there wouldn't be some participation in Spanish Civil War, especially of Italian government of the day happens to be very conservative

so it's very possible that an Anshluss will happen even earlier.

Why do you say this? Do you figure only Mussolini had the will to bluster and posture against the Germans in 1934-1937 to deter them, whereas a non-Mussolini conservative or bourgeois government would just ask mommy and daddy (France and Britain) to stop the Germans for them?
 
Why certain there wouldn't be some participation in Spanish Civil War, especially of Italian government of the day happens to be very conservative

Being conservative is one thing, risking international incident and muddling things with France and the UK is totally another; while allowing (real) volunteer to go to Spain an official help like OTL (both financially and material) is out of the question...expecially with the socialist still being in existence and Italy remaining a democracy.

Why do you say this? Do you figure only Mussolini had the will to bluster and posture against the Germans in 1934-1937 to deter them, whereas a non-Mussolini conservative or bourgeois government would just ask mommy and daddy (France and Britain) to stop the Germans for them?

Italy will not go alone against Germany (for more or less the same reason of rest of the Entente aka the cost, the weariness and a pubblic opinion not thrilled by the war and that think Versailles has been to harsh) and both London and Paris are not interested to stop the Nazi at this stage...still the italian goverment will try to stop things with diplomacy and military posturing but he will not go to war to stop the Anschluss (at least not without the support of the rest of the Stresa Front).
 
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Why do you say this? Do you figure only Mussolini had the will to bluster and posture against the Germans in 1934-1937 to deter them, whereas a non-Mussolini conservative or bourgeois government would just ask mommy and daddy (France and Britain) to stop the Germans for them?

Good point. Any strong Italian government, left or right, could see Anschluss was not in Italy's interest. A weak government might see that too, but like many other cases be unable to take decisive action.
 
What if Mussolini never came to power? What would happen to Italy? How would this change their History, the course of WW2, and the entire world?

Would Hitler even still have come to power?

It is arguable that Hitler would never have come to power without the Beer Hall Putsch--despite its utter failure--because of the attention it brought him (thanks to the Putsch and the subsequent trial he was no longer merely a local, Bavarian, figure) and the lessons it taught him. And the Beer Hall Putsch was modeled on the March on Rome. (As Philip Morgan writes, the Putsch "was to be Hitler's 'March on Berlin,' in the event a ham fisted and inaccurate reading of the 'March on Rome,' but a reading, nevertheless. Only after the failed coup did Hitler take on board the full sense of the strategy behind the 'March on Rome,' its compelling and effective blend of legal and illegal manouevring for power." *Fascism in Europe 1919-1945,* p. 162-3 https://books.google.com/books?id=mz8hLnFiz8wC&pg=PA162 )
 
No early Italian fascist government might also have wider butterflies in Spain. Would the 23 coup happen and would the dictatorship last so long if it did come at some point, if Italy wasn't providing an impossible to ignore precedent?
 

RNG

Banned
How about this? Italy is given large amounts of Austria Hungary. The damage to the Italians is less aswell and Mussolini never rises to power. However when Hitler rises to power and wants the German speaking regions of Europe this creates conflict with Italy as they large German speaking regions in the north. Hitler takes Czechoslovakia first and then Poland and splits it with Russia with no war starting. Italy now fears a war and Britain and France do not seem to want to fight a war because of Italy and so Italy give the German speaking regions a vote to join Germany. They all yes. Germany now invades Denmark starting World War Two. Italy stays neutral. Germany falls quicker. Russia gets less land. Japan is taken by invasion rather than nuclear weapons and so there is a communist North and capitalist South, Russia also gets Manchuria. Due to Japan being spilt and Manchuria being Soviet, America helps Britain and France keep their empire to avoid Communist uprisings. So India never gets Independence and Indochina stays French. America also help more in the Chinese Civil War and the Communist lose. They then take North Korea, however it is in this war that nuclear weapons are developed. A Cold War now starts. The Soviet Union falls around the same time. Today is pretty much the same yet Italy was given back their German speaking regions and so Austria never exists. The French and British empire are still around. Korea is unified. China is not communist and Manchuria is Independence along with Tibet.
 
Mussolini was put in power by the King. Does Vittorio Emanuele III find another strongman to do his bidding or does the shabby Liberale regime just kind of bumble along, maybe eventually into a Spanish style civil war?
 
My understanding is that Mussolini was an avowed Socialist before he made the costume change and became Il Duce. In mucking around with Great war alternatives this is one of the more fascinating departures. I think that if the Italian Fascists fail to take power and remain more rightist rabble rousers then we set in motion a really different world. First I suspect more traditional conservatives controlling the reactionary right, thus pro-monarchists, nationalists and so forth rather than the quasi-socialist and often truly authoritarian movements modelled upon or warped by Fascist success. This might then let the far left remain more generally divided, assuming the Bolsheviks take power and if they failed then who knows, perhaps the Socialists remain more the outcasts as rightist governments hold power more places. I think it certainly might let a "fascist" party emerge elsewhere, France or Russia seem most likely, obviously Germany but I am doubtful it is Hitler, instead I think the Freikorps and Junkers simply hold to course. And I think we seriously undermine any Spanish civil war. And I think we might see a civil war or at least a disintegration in Italy assuming right and left tug of war as the monarchy sits impotent to change. At bottom I have pondered a world without the Bolsheviks in power and thus without the reactionary Fascists, in stead the far left and right remain rooted in older traditions and the ideological struggles are far more diverse. That appears to me a far more alien timeline to how we think of things, almost fanciful in its similar yet unfamiliarity.
 

Interesting, but I’m curious how parts of this would work.

1) Which regions of A-H would Italy get? They don’t really have a claim to Austria proper (unless it’s more like a vassal state/zone of control); ceded territories would more likely be from Slavic regions like Slovenia and Croatia, which puts them into conflict with the Serbs. The only region Germany would contest would be Südtirol and other Austrian land unless they get really ambitious and claim Trieste/Trst. Also, after the war it is far more likely that independent Austria is restored and Italy given more Balkan land than Italian Vienna happening.

2) India was going to gain independence almost inevitably barring a war to force the country down—it was unprofitable, nationalism was rising, and no one wanted India to dominate the Commonwealth in the future. You might still see a Dominion of India ITTL, though, which would be a huge change.
 
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