What if Muslims never conquered Nubia?

raharris1973

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how would the Nubia area, modern northern Sudan in OTL, do if Muslims never expand south from Egypt? What other know could on effects goes this have in Africa.

If we do have later Euro colonialism will Nubia spend as few years as a colony as Ethiopia did?
 
IMO, the best situation for a surviving Makuria-Alodia-Nobatia situation in Nubia would be having the Crusaders manage to conquer Egypt, preferrably sometime in the 13th century. That, or a longer-lasting Fatimid Caliphate.
 
how would the Nubia area, modern northern Sudan in OTL, do if Muslims never expand south from Egypt? What other know could on effects goes this have in Africa.

If we do have later Euro colonialism will Nubia spend as few years as a colony as Ethiopia did?

Maybe, if Egypt stays under Byzantine control and remains Coptic Orthodox, the Nubians stay too. Orthodox Christianity would claim East and North Africa, maybe even Somalia . But Byzantine Egypt is only possible with mayor butterflies. Maybe no Justinic Palgue and alternate events on the Arabian Peninsula.
 
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Honestly, I think it'd be a cool PoD pair to have one lead to a stronger Nubia, but then combined with an alliance with the Romans that effectively leaves Nubia in control of Egypt as a result of a joint effort to turn back the Caliphate.

Perhaps an observant Nubian ruler starts reforming when they notice the rapid spread of Islam in Arabia, and expect them to invade the Romans/Persians, meaning Nubia wouldn't be safe.

I mean, hell, that isn't much of a divergence from OTL - if the Nubians and Romans can manage to organise an invasion (sneaky messages being snuck sneakily) then Makuria could well lead to the containment of Islam to Arabia, and become crazy rich from selling grain and goods to the Romans, and being their intermediary for the Indian Ocean trade.

This at least would limit any expansion of Islam into Nubia proper during a crisis - perhaps instead being taken advantage of by the Romans.

I'd find a Makuria-Rising scenario pretty cool. Unexpected beneficiary of the Caliphate.
 
how would the Nubia area, modern northern Sudan in OTL, do if Muslims never expand south from Egypt?

I think I sense a misunderstanding here. At first there was Nobatia in the north, Makuria in the middle and Alodia in the south. All were Coptic Christians. Nobatia was absorbed by Makuria in the 7th century. The Fatimid caliphs were perfectly content with having a Christian state on its southern border as long it was friendly and for the most part it was. However as the Fatimid control over Egypt disintegrated some of the Makurians began raiding Upper Egypt. Saladin sent Turan-Shah with a small army to rectify the situation. At the time they consider annexing Makuria but decided it was too poor to be worth owning. And after that it proceeded to get poorer and poorer. There were some civil wars. During this period the nation went from being overwhelmingly Copt to a Christian/Muslim mix. In the late 13th Century the Mamluks came south and conquered it but their rule did not last long. After Makuria again became independent but it continued to decline and sort of faded away in the 15th century. By that time it was mostly Muslim.

As for Alodia it was never conquered by the Egyptians but there was a similar pattern of long term decline. It was the Muslim Funj coming from the west in the late 15th century that ended their existence.
 

raharris1973

Gone Fishin'
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I think I sense a misunderstanding here. At first there was Nobatia in the north, Makuria in the middle and Alodia in the south. All were Coptic Christians. Nobatia was absorbed by Makuria in the 7th century. The Fatimid caliphs were perfectly content with having a Christian state on its southern border as long it was friendly and for the most part it was. However as the Fatimid control over Egypt disintegrated some of the Makurians began raiding Upper Egypt. Saladin sent Turan-Shah with a small army to rectify the situation. At the time they consider annexing Makuria but decided it was too poor to be worth owning. And after that it proceeded to get poorer and poorer. There were some civil wars. During this period the nation went from being overwhelmingly Copt to a Christian/Muslim mix. In the late 13th Century the Mamluks came south and conquered it but their rule did not last long. After Makuria again became independent but it continued to decline and sort of faded away in the 15th century. By that time it was mostly Muslim.

As for Alodia it was never conquered by the Egyptians but there was a similar pattern of long term decline. It was the Muslim Funj coming from the west in the late 15th century that ended their existence.

Great post that makes up for my nonexistent research. Maybe we could limit the historic process of Islamization by having the Makurians be more circumspect about provoking Egypt's rulers, and also improving the strength of their political and ecclesiastical institutions internally.

It does not seem implausible this could lead to a set of states that are not terribly susceptible to conversion to Islam and that have just enough strength to throw back Mamelukes or Funj or Ottomans if they momentarily get interested in acquiring the place.

The Nubian states and Ethiopia were formally under truce and exempt from jihad from Muhammad's time until several centuries later.
 
Giving this some thought I think your odds are better with Alodia than Makuria. Alodia went into decline later than Makuria. Maybe one gifted monarch in the early 13th century addresses the country's problems
 
Giving this some thought I think your odds are better with Alodia than Makuria. Alodia went into decline later than Makuria. Maybe one gifted monarch in the early 13th century addresses the country's problems

Alodia was conquered by the Funj, and it's probable migration (maybe the Shilluk or other Nilotic peoples) from elsewhere would destroy Alodia given time. The goal would be to preserve Nubian Christianity and culture and assimilate the newcomers, rather than OTL's increasing Arabisation.
 
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