What if Mongolia's Great Kan hadnt died in the invasion of Europe?

The Hashashim were more targeted by the other means aspect of the Mongols than the siege engineers, if I recall from my reading correctly. Capturing their leader and milking that for all its worth went further than trebuchets.
 
I agree with others that Europe is too worthless to become Mongol. That said I see it as highly likely they would destroy the emerging trade cities and universities, kill the Pope and cardinals, slaughter or enslave much of the population, and burn half of Europe to the ground.

That could well put the renaissance, the reformation, the discovery of America, the enlightenment and the industrial revolution off centuries. It's a timeline I'd love to see.
 
Having a Pax Mongolica stretching across Eurasia into Europe might stimulate the growth of alternative trade routes between Asia and Europe. That would reduce (though no eliminate) the demand for alternative routes to Asia, which might stave off European naval adventures for some time.
 
Why would alternate trade routes that are still "the long way" make Europe less likely to wonder if there's a better route by sea?
 
Having a Pax Mongolica stretching across Eurasia into Europe...

There's only going to be a Pax Mongolica as long as the Hordes are nice to each other and not engaging in endless civil wars and rebellions, as per OTL. The Chaghatai region was basically lawless once again at Khubilai's death.
 
There's only going to be a Pax Mongolica as long as the Hordes are nice to each other and not engaging in endless civil wars and rebellions, as per OTL. The Chaghatai region was basically lawless once again at Khubilai's death.

I've read that this meant there never really was a Pax Mongolica. Kind of negates the better part of why the conquests being so horrible was merely a means to an end.
 
I've read that this meant there never really was a Pax Mongolica. Kind of negates the better part of why the conquests being so horrible was merely a means to an end.

I would agree. There wasn't an effective Pax Mongolica for very long, but for a a couple of centuries there was a single civilisation with a single understanding of trade, protocol and diplomacy that existed along the old Silk Route. If you knew how to treat with Mongols you could travel and even get business done.

That said, the endless rebellions part is also true.
 
I would agree. There wasn't an effective Pax Mongolica for very long, but for a a couple of centuries there was a single civilisation with a single understanding of trade, protocol and diplomacy that existed along the old Silk Route. If you knew how to treat with Mongols you could travel and even get business done.

That said, the endless rebellions part is also true.

Sounds like the ability to exploit the situation promoted (unintentionally?) the idea that the Pax Mongolica meant more than it did.
 
Sounds like the ability to exploit the situation promoted (unintentionally?) the idea that the Pax Mongolica meant more than it did.

Well it certainly sped up technological diffusion from east to west while also bringing the lovely black plague.
 
What specifically diffused?

If you notice after the Mongols we start getting Firelances and Hand cannons popping up in Europe and larger cannons popping up in the Middle east. It is reasonable to assume, I think, that the Mongol khanates carried the technology to Europe.
 
If you notice after the Mongols we start getting Firelances and Hand cannons popping up in Europe and larger cannons popping up in the Middle east. It is reasonable to assume, I think, that the Mongol khanates carried the technology to Europe.

Fair enough.
 
Why would alternate trade routes that are still "the long way" make Europe less likely to wonder if there's a better route by sea?

Oh, they will, eventually. But if Western Europe is under the direct or indirect rule of a Khan, then the initial investment in voyages won't be there. Also, you have to factor in that some alternative trade routes particularly well-developed riverine trade routes through Russia, might be better routes than long naval voyages. In certain circumstances.

Then again, if areas like Britain and/or Iberia remain independent or at least autonomous, then that might increase their interest in finding a sea route. And, as others mentioned, if those routes are chaotic and rebellious they're going to be useless.
 
Oh, they will, eventually. But if Western Europe is under the direct or indirect rule of a Khan, then the initial investment in voyages won't be there. Also, you have to factor in that some alternative trade routes particularly well-developed riverine trade routes through Russia, might be better routes than long naval voyages. In certain circumstances.

Perhaps. But someone might wonder if there are better ones anyway. Might be unrealistic of them, but it wouldn't be unrealistic for them to try.

Then again, if areas like Britain and/or Iberia remain independent or at least autonomous, then that might increase their interest in finding a sea route. And, as others mentioned, if those routes are chaotic and rebellious they're going to be useless.
Yeah. A lot depends on what happens.

And of course, this is assuming Western Europe is in a position to worry about the trade routes, as opposed to trying to avoid being stomped on by the khan. :eek:

In any case, even if the delay is a couple decades rather than centuries, SOME impact is likely, and most likely not for the better.
 
I've got a question, whats to stop the europeans from just trying to become tributary states?

Too proud, I'd guess. I once read a description of the battle of Legnica / Liegnitz - before the battle, a Teutonic knight would fight a Mongol warrior, just those two. At this time, the Europeans were laughing about those little ugly guys on their little ugly horses...

The biggest key to all this is Hungary. They were the ones that caught on quickest to what stops Mongols (depopulated frontiers, scorched earth, abundance of forts, rapid response, small unit warfare and good light cavalry of your own)

But they paid a high price - Hungary lost half its population AFAIK.

I think they would not so much as conquered Europa as burnt half of it to the ground.

Unless the Europeans would rather capitulate and pay tribute.

Out of curiosity, has anyone ever done a timeline on this particular subject? I'd be interested to see how they play it out.

basileus' Interference TL has them conquer Central Europe. It's currently in the year 1300.
 
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