What if Mohammed had never existed?

[BGMan]

The Arabs would likely gradually go Christian. After that, the window for anything like Islam to arise, would be shut.

There would likeliest be no mass Arab explosion across the world. Perhaps leakage of bedouin into settled lands, like there had been for long before down the ages.

I dunno... there was a mass European explosion across the world...

Arab Australia? South Africa?

 

[htgriffin]

No Islam equals no Crusades. Jerusalem would have remaiend in Christian hands.....

Ah, but what _sort_ of Christians?

If the Monophystite Semites of the Levant and the Copts of Egypt open thier doors to co-religionists and/or potential converts....

HTG

 

[Dave Howery]

there would likely be a Christian religious crisis of major proportions... I remember reading someplace that one reason Islam was so successful in the areas it conquered was that the locals in Egypt, Palestine, etc., were unhappy with the Christian leaders for some reason. Without Islam, I wonder if these peoples might not latch onto some other brand of Christianity and revolt against the Papacy anyway...

 

[Shope]

No Mohammed means that George Foreman stays heavyweight champ a little longer.

 

[TyrannusZero]

there would likely be a Christian religious crisis of major proportions... I remember reading someplace that one reason Islam was so successful in the areas it conquered was that the locals in Egypt, Palestine, etc., were unhappy with the Christian leaders for some reason. Without Islam, I wonder if these peoples might not latch onto some other brand of Christianity and revolt against the Papacy anyway...

The papacy had nothing to do much with the Eastern Church at this time, or anytime.....

 

[chunkeymonkey13q]

They were unhappy because of heavy persecution by the Eastern Roman Empire. Without an Arab explosion, however, I doubt those teritories would have been allowed to revolt. Who knows, maybe the Eastern Empire would still be a superpower today.

 

[MerryPrankster]

They were unhappy because of heavy persecution by the Eastern Roman Empire. Without an Arab explosion, however, I doubt those teritories would have been allowed to revolt. Who knows, maybe the Eastern Empire would still be a superpower today.

A series of smaller Arab invasions might enable the Copts of Egypt or the Maronites of Lebanon (who were so hard-core that at one point they were extorting $$ from the Caliph) to tell the Byzantines to stick it.

 

[htgriffin]

They were unhappy because of heavy persecution by the Eastern Roman Empire. Without an Arab explosion, however, I doubt those teritories would have been allowed to revolt. Who knows, maybe the Eastern Empire would still be a superpower today.

Demographics made the Arab explosion, as you put it, inevitable. In addition both the Romans and Persians had bled one another white in the least round of wars.

I see local uprisings merged with Arab invasions of Mesopotamia and the Levant for certain, and if Egypt does not get considerable autonamy it is next while a new dynasty takes over Persia.

HTG

 

[Nicole]

Demographics made the Arab explosion, as you put it, inevitable. In addition both the Romans and Persians had bled one another white in the least round of wars.

I see local uprisings merged with Arab invasions of Mesopotamia and the Levant for certain, and if Egypt does not get considerable autonamy it is next while a new dynasty takes over Persia.

HTG

I disagree- without a unified army, they can try to explode but will be fought back.

 

[MerryPrankster]

I disagree- without a unified army, they can try to explode but will be fought back.

The Byzantines had been bled white and most of the population south of the Taurus hated their government. Persia was a colossal mess--a succession of child-kings, civil wars, etc. Trees were growing in the streets of Ctesiphon.

Even an Arab "volkswandring" (disunited migration) would be too much for the Persians and probably for the Byzantines to handle.

 

[Faeelin]

Without the unifying power of Islam, I doubt an Arab "expansion" made up of disunited groups will amount to much- they probably won't even pass the Ghassanids and whatever Persia's Arab puppet state was.

I dunno.

I could easily see a monophysite band of holy warriors emerging.

I'm not convinced that Christian Arabs will automatically head to India; it's not like the Christian groups in the Near East got along.

 

[Faeelin]

A thought: No Islam = No continuous cultural zone from India to Spain, slowing the diffusion of crops like rice, hard wheat, and cotton.

I dislike dystopias, but there's a good chance that Italians never make pasta.

 

[TyrannusZero]

No saving of classical Greco-Roman works, or a world without Hindu/Arabic numerals....

- shudders -

 

[MerryPrankster]

No saving of classical Greco-Roman works, or a world without Hindu/Arabic numerals....

- shudders -

Monks in the West (particularly in Ireland) preserved a lot of classical Greco-Roman works, while I'm sure the Byzantines (being Greco-Roman themselves) had a lot too.

 

[TyrannusZero]

Monks in the West (particularly in Ireland) preserved a lot of classical Greco-Roman works, while I'm sure the Byzantines (being Greco-Roman themselves) had a lot too.

Yes, but not to the degree and level that Muslim scholars did.

 

[Leo Caesius]

Yes, it was primarily the translation of these works (rather than their mechanical copying) that really saved them, as people don't generally think to copy something in a dead language until it's too late, whereas translations into living languages tend to circulate, even outside their communities. That's why Arabic was so popular among European doctors in the Middle Ages, as they used it to read Galen and the rest, who had been preserved in Arabic translations - the demand for something like Galen was always there, but the manuscript traditions in the West came to a dead end.

 

[The Abyss]

is same scenario,. different guy a possible POD?

 

[Nicole]

The Byzantines had been bled white and most of the population south of the Taurus hated their government. Persia was a colossal mess--a succession of child-kings, civil wars, etc. Trees were growing in the streets of Ctesiphon.

Even an Arab "volkswandring" (disunited migration) would be too much for the Persians and probably for the Byzantines to handle.

But the Ghassanids were not nearly as wiped out- the united Arab army was able to bribe the Ghassanids, a disunited wandering tribe would probably not- note that here the Arab wealth stays in the Arab cities. I believe Persia had a similar Arab puppet staet that shared a similar fate.

 

[Shope]

The Arabs also rescued Aristotle's writings. Where would western literature be without the Unities? Can you imagine if Tristram Shandy were the rule rather than the exception?

 

[chunkeymonkey13q]

The Byzantines were exhausted, but not completely bled white as you put it. They lost a huge portion of their army at Yarmuk due as much to weather conditions as to the Arabs actually destroying it. Without Mohammed, the Arabs may have continued fighting themselves long enough for the Romans to make a recovery.