What If Massachusetts Bay charter was revoked in 1638 and the colony declared independence?

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by Hamersley Macdonnell II, Feb 11, 2018.

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If MBC declared independence in 1638, what followed was...

  1. a) a war between England and MBC, in which MBC won independence

    2.6%
  2. b) a war, in which MBC was crushed by England and direct royal rule ensued

    81.6%
  3. c) England was unable to respond militarily, although it didn't recognize independence until few yrs

    15.8%
  1. Hamersley Macdonnell II Banned

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    Actually, it wasn't John Fiske but Perry Miller in his Orthodoxy in Massachusetts that in 1638 when there was a threat of MBC charter being revoked, the colony's leaders would have risen to an armed resistance if necessary, and possibly the monument in Bunker Hill would celebrate an earlier date (c. 1640). Do you think Miller is right?
     
  2. Hamersley Macdonnell II Banned

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    The letter of John Winthrop to the English authorities in April 1638 said what Miller speculated, that if the charter be revoked then secession from England will follow.
     
  3. Matt Has a Simpsons gif for that

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    We seem to be missing some of the conversation? Is this a continuation of last week's discussion?
     
  4. Cuāuhtemōc Instagram Fiend Banned

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    Either the English swoop in and destroy the rebellious Puritans or the natives take wind of the situation, swoop in and purge the land of the rebellious Puritans.
     
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  5. Hamersley Macdonnell II Banned

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    Missing in what sense? Yes, this is sort of a continuation, but exploring chances for independence in an earlier point of New England history.
     
  6. Mikestone8 Well-Known Member

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    Well, Massachusetts didn't have much success in resisting Charles II when he took away its charter, or James II when he incorporated it into the Dominion of New England. And its population was quite a bit smaller in the 1630s than in the 1680s.
     
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  7. Hamersley Macdonnell II Banned

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    Well, that's quite true. So, the conclusion must be that New England colonies couldn't have achieved independence in the 17th century unless England let them to, which was not the case. Btw, to what extent are you familiar with the theocratic aspect of New England history? If you are to some degree at least, I've got some questions.
     
  8. Mikestone8 Well-Known Member

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    I'm aware that it was very much that way till 1683 (when its charter was revoked) and when it got a new charter from William III it wasn't allowed to go back to being theocratic. Beyond that I'm pretty vague.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
  9. Hamersley Macdonnell II Banned

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    Ok, so probably you don't know enough to help me. But thanks for your input anyways.
     
  10. Demothenes Can’t we just get back to the good times

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    They did fine in resisting in 1680’s. They did overthrow Andros.
     
  11. Simon Thread Killer Extraordinaire

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    True, but there were rather more distracting things occurring at the time for the British government.
     
  12. Hamersley Macdonnell II Banned

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    In the 1660s England was involved in naval wars against the Dutch in America, so could the Puritan colonies in Magellanica (a fictional continent presumed to be in the area between Peru and New Zealand) secede succesfully because England doesn't have the resources to send a fleet there?
    Or if not in the 1660s, what about 1680s?
     
  13. Mikestone8 Well-Known Member

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    That was after James II had been overthrown. Even so they only got away with it because Increase Mather had smuggled himself onto a ship bound for England, where he persuaded the new government that Andros was a Jacobite, and hence had been justifiably removed.

    Andros was made Governor of Virginia in 1695 by William III, who by then evidently realised that he had been hornswoggled by the Puritans.
     
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  14. Alex Zetsu Well-Known Member

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    The colony gets blockaded by maybe one frigate. Or a sloop. After 3 decades of living in the 1400s, the children who hear rumors of what England is like demand to allow the technological goodies from Europe to come back.