What if Marx had never been born?

Literally what?

Reactionary anti-democratic ideologies that have existed in various forms changing according to the state of society since the French Revolution will suddenly cease to exist if we can get rid of the mid-19th century workers' movement by taking out Marx in particular.

I can't even.
Fascism specifically was a reaction against the Russian Revolution though. There would still be a reactionary anti-democratic ideology, it just wouldn't necessarily be a fascist one.
 
Ok, first of all to the question at hand, I think either anarchism or some kind of christian socialism would become the dominant socialist ideology, the anarchist one being MUCH more likely, since it was for a time the dominant one and still held much influence over a bigger part of the internationale labour movement until well after the Soviet "revolution". The only other possibility, which so far no one has mentioned, might be someone like August Willich becoming more influential in the exiled german labour movmement, making an alliance of democrats and all kinds of communists more viable. For those who don't know, Engels was the Aide when Willich led an army in the 1848 revolution, trying to overthrow and exile royality in some german states. He was also thought Marx was too conservative and challenged him to a fight. Without Marx, I could see him and Engels becoming closer and together, forging a cooperation between democratic forces and communist forces, maybe even with the integration of anarchists. (I cant see Blanqui becoming popular longterm)

On the question of Lenin and marxism: Do any of you actually know what Lenin did or do ya'll just read "Yeah, Lenin was communist thus everything he did was good". Like, he used the states power to fight against working class institutions, like the factory comittees or the soviets or the trade unions. He himself proclaimed the party the vanguard of the working class, but thats like, a+ advertisment, nothing else. At the end, the Leninist experiment failed, as it was destined to and as it was predicted by basically every other marxist or socialist overall. Seriously, some people read Lenin, think they read Marx and then read the communist manifesto and think they got it all figured out.


Have fun reading how the leninists fought against the working class control in "the name of the working class". Fucking sad. The revolution had potential, but faulty political theory doomed it, or maybe just lust for power due to fetishization of state power over workers power.
 
Wait...so because states adopted education, it stopped being Marxist?

I am reasonably sure that Horace Mann in 1838 had never heard of Karl Marx...

***

In 1838, he founded and edited The Common School Journal. In this journal, Mann targeted the public school and its problems. His six main principles were:

  1. the public should no longer remain ignorant;
  2. that such education should be paid for, controlled, and sustained by an interested public;
  3. that this education will be best provided in schools that embrace children from a variety of backgrounds;
  4. that this education must be non-sectarian;
  5. that this education must be taught using the tenets of a free society; and
  6. that education should be provided by well-trained, professional teachers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horace_Mann
 
I am reasonably sure that Horace Mann in 1838 had never heard of Karl Marx...

***

In 1838, he founded and edited The Common School Journal. In this journal, Mann targeted the public school and its problems. His six main principles were:

  1. the public should no longer remain ignorant;
  2. that such education should be paid for, controlled, and sustained by an interested public;
  3. that this education will be best provided in schools that embrace children from a variety of backgrounds;
  4. that this education must be non-sectarian;
  5. that this education must be taught using the tenets of a free society; and
  6. that education should be provided by well-trained, professional teachers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horace_Mann
Yes, I was referring to the circular argument being made by the person I was responding to.
 
If there is no Communism, there is likely no Fascism. and no Nazism. There will still be racism, Objectivism, and other such ideas, but it would be a better world. Either Russia goes democratic or at worst stays Tsarist.
Without Marx the conditions for similar movements will still be there, they just might have some differences due to butterfly’s.
 
There were plenty of ideologies competing with Marxism that would be different if someone attempted to put them into practice I think.
Anarchism, Mutualism, Georgism, Utopianism, Christian Socialism, ect.
 
Then you don't have communism, but likely have a version of authoritarianism, socialism, and anarchism. In my opinion, it would end up being a form of socialism versus a form or authoritarian extremism in Russia. Traditionally anarchism doesn't hold up in war, they have a tendency to fight with everyone. I would imagine more authoritarians and more socialists fighting each other.
 
Last edited:
So Marx is never born -- some other thinker writes a highly influential tract about the excesses of capitalism. Or maybe one of the others in OTL who wrote a tract, such as Lloyd George, gets more attention.

Communism emerged as a reaction to the problems of his day, and those problems will exist, whether Marx is born or not. The idea that all the workers in the Industrial Age would have been nice and happy and obedient, if that Marx guy hadn't riled them up, is silly.
 
Top