What if Mark Antony won.

What would the world be like today if the armies of Rome were defeated by Mark Antony and the forces of Egypt's army, who then turned around and conquered Rome?
 
It is impossible to say what kind of world would be today if Mark Antony would have win. But in short term consequences might be that Rome and Egypt remain separate countries and Mark Antony becomes dictator of Rome. But if MA tries create dual monarchy between Rome and Egypt, he hardly lives long.
 
What would the world be like today if the armies of Rome were defeated by Mark Antony and the forces of Egypt's army, who then turned around and conquered Rome?

He would implement a despotic monarchy, Ptolemäic Diadochi style ? What would the fate of Ceasarion be in such a timeline ?
 
He would implement a despotic monarchy, Ptolemäic Diadochi style ? What would the fate of Ceasarion be in such a timeline ?

I doubt he would be crazy enough to do it. The Roman oligarchy had just killed Julius Caesar for trying something far less wide-ranging, and no matter how much money and grain Egypt can put into his hands, Antony depends on the military resources of Rome. He can't simply ignore the Senate and People, so he needs to find some role into which he can fit in that context.

The main thing is, he might play the Greco-Egyptian God-King in Alexandria, but the majority of Mark Antony's military power and all of his standfing in the provinces depends entirely on his Roman persona as triumvir and holder of extraordinary imperium. He cannot afford to relinquish that, not least because the core of his fighting forces are Caesarian legions and officers. The armies that faced each other at Actium were very similar, for all the Augustan propaganda that painted them as eastern hordes. A legionary can cheer when his commander screws an Egyptian queen, dresses up as a God and has locals bow to him. But things will look very different when he is told that he is expected to take this seriously. Not to mention that he can forget about his retirement settlement and will never see his family again. Antony has to fight for Rome, not against Rome.

THe way I read the man, he will overreach. Dictator perpetuus, savage proscriptions, a few very nasty years for everyone who opposed him, and then an attempt at peace so he can go east and do his thing again. Maybe another lost war against the Parthians. At some point, it will become too much. He'd need a very good brain to play the Senate the way Octavian did. His bnest case svenario is to follow closely in Casear's footsteps and try the famous clemency thing. Given the mutual exhaustion of all sides, it might be enough to end the war with a compromise dictatorship.

Caesarion is unlikely to have a long life either way, IMO. Unless Antony is really serious about dynastic loyalty, he's just a potential rival.
 
What would the world be like today if the armies of Rome were defeated by Mark Antony and the forces of Egypt's army, who then turned around and conquered Rome?

Probably exactly the same as today. Anthony's army was roman. It's just his navy that was a mix of roman and egyptian ships.

You may know the story of the 2 maynahs. The roman and italian people were just fed-up of civil wars. Many of them just waited to see who would come out winner of the contest between Octavian and Antony.

Contrary to what was asserted by Augustus' genious propaganda, Antony probably was the more republican of the 2 rivals.
 
I doubt he would be crazy enough to do it. The Roman oligarchy had just killed Julius Caesar for trying something far less wide-ranging, and no matter how much money and grain Egypt can put into his hands, Antony depends on the military resources of Rome. He can't simply ignore the Senate and People, so he needs to find some role into which he can fit in that context.

The main thing is, he might play the Greco-Egyptian God-King in Alexandria, but the majority of Mark Antony's military power and all of his standfing in the provinces depends entirely on his Roman persona as triumvir and holder of extraordinary imperium. He cannot afford to relinquish that, not least because the core of his fighting forces are Caesarian legions and officers. The armies that faced each other at Actium were very similar, for all the Augustan propaganda that painted them as eastern hordes. A legionary can cheer when his commander screws an Egyptian queen, dresses up as a God and has locals bow to him. But things will look very different when he is told that he is expected to take this seriously. Not to mention that he can forget about his retirement settlement and will never see his family again. Antony has to fight for Rome, not against Rome.

THe way I read the man, he will overreach. Dictator perpetuus, savage proscriptions, a few very nasty years for everyone who opposed him, and then an attempt at peace so he can go east and do his thing again. Maybe another lost war against the Parthians. At some point, it will become too much. He'd need a very good brain to play the Senate the way Octavian did. His bnest case svenario is to follow closely in Casear's footsteps and try the famous clemency thing. Given the mutual exhaustion of all sides, it might be enough to end the war with a compromise dictatorship.

Caesarion is unlikely to have a long life either way, IMO. Unless Antony is really serious about dynastic loyalty, he's just a potential rival.

Excellent analyzed !
 
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I radically disagree.

The Man of the proscriptions was Octavian. He was the Man who insisted on Addict n'aimes on the list, not Antony. The young butcher was Octavian, not Antony.

And he deserved the nickname much than Pompey who was to a large extent forced by Sulla to kill the enemy leaders he made prisoners.

Make no mistake. If Augustus lived so old and did not suffer Caesar's fate, It was because Augustus was merciless with his countrymen while Caesar was too forgiving.

After the battle of Philippi, the defeated republican nobles showed respect for Antony and contempt for Octavian who insisted on having some of them executed while Antony wanted to forgive more of them.
 
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You can get an idea by who Marc Antony had supporting him. After Philippi, the liberatores still alive more or less migrated towards Antony. When Octavian was gearing up for war with Antony, there was a mass exodus of senators to Antony's camps. Antony was frequently in touch with Sextus Pompey before the latter's weird attempt at usurping power in the east after losing Sicily.


Keeping that in mind, let us look to how Antony handled the situation following Caesar's assassination: Rather than go for punitive measures, he went for reconciliation. It was basically "Caesar is dead, let's try to move forward". Now, things started to fall apart rapidly due, in large part to Cicero and Octavian (acting of course in completely different ways and with completely different goals in mind), which set up Antony being declared a public enemy, the Mutina campaign, and then the triumvirate, but Antony showed no signs of being some bloodthirsty tyrant-that was Octavian, the butcher who was the most enthusiastic about the proscriptions and then about killing liberatores after Philippi.

So where does that leave us? Antony was the man supported by the Senate. Which doesn't mean much, admittedly. However, given his previous history, the man does not have much tact, so he is bound to screw up. I honestly don't know what he'd do with complete mastery. Probably some form of reconciliation, with a little heavy-handedness. He's not the type of guy that's going to set up some lasting reformed government system, so I just see somehow it reverting to some form of republic limping along, or (also likely) Antony getting assassinated and then...who knows from there.
 
Don't underestimate the fact that the Julio-Claudian emperors were Antony's descendants as much as Augustus' descendants. Claudius, Caligula and Nero all were descendants of Antony and Octavia.
 
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