What if Louis the XIV did not take such an aggresive stance in the Spanish succession

It is a well known fact that, much like many French kings, Louis the XIV wanted control over the Spanish low countries and lower Italy. But when he excluded Britian and the Dutch from Spanish trade, when Phillip V took the throne, the Dutch, British and Austrians sighned a pact to take the Italian and and Low countries while also cutting Phillip V from the French line of succession. My question is, what if Louis the XIV did not exclude the British and Dutch from trade and instead played nice? would Spain and France have united fully?
 
I have to say I doubt it. Trade was one issue, and probably the straw that broke the camel's back. But France and Spain united would be a huge threat - one that the English, Austrians and Dutch surely couldn't accept, in the same way that I would argue that post-1804, Napoleon could never keep his throne; the same way that the British and French would never accept Russian control of the Dardanelles Strait and the same way that the Americans would never sit back and watch the Soviet Union creating Communist puppets around the world. It's just too much of a threat to be allowed to stand.
 
The British were exausted after the war of the grand alliance. They also did not have the backing of the Dutch untl the trade was restricted by the French. I believe that if Louis did not restric the trade, the Dutch, Austrian and British alliance would have taken maybe another decade to form, and also would not have been as strong. With this in mind its plausible the French and Spanish may have won.
 
It might help, but one has to remember that a Franco-Spanish union would drastically realign the european balance of power, and in such a way that several nations cannot or will not stand for. For Britain, this marks the failure of centuries of maneuverings to prevent a single continental hegemon. A franco-spanish alliance is going to be the dominant force in the western part of the continent, and will have a fleet capable of challenging the royal navy. for the dutch, such a linking means a direct threat to their independence, as both france and spain have historic designs on the region and the dutch historically were in need of foreign aid just to see off this threat (incidently, through william, this is another reason that england will not sit neutral). Austria, for her part, is going to see this as an insult, a sign of her declining power, and a direct threat to her interests in germany and italy.

All told, the franco-spanish union was a bogeyman to too many people for them to simply stand by without major changes and a bit of luck on louis's part.
 

Paul MacQ

Donor
Preventing the war at all
Charles II of Spain died and bequeathed all of his possessions to his half-sister's grandson Philip, duc d'Anjou .

Was there someone Else the Crown could have been bequeathed too ??
That could have meant close ties with France without risk of Succession going to France ? and keeping things Heated yet not going to actual war ?
 
Preventing the war at all
Charles II of Spain died and bequeathed all of his possessions to his half-sister's grandson Philip, duc d'Anjou .

Was there someone Else the Crown could have been bequeathed too ??
That could have meant close ties with France without risk of Succession going to France ? and keeping things Heated yet not going to actual war ?

The original plan was to make the next king of Spain Joseph Ferdinand of Bavaria, whose grandmother, Margaret Teresa of Spain, was the sister of Charles II. He was the prefered candidate primarily because he was neither a Hapsburg nor a bourbon, though his grandfather had been the holy roman emperor (he was also probably the most rightful candidate, but that is another story). However, these plans encountered a minor roadblock when Joseph ferdinand predeceased Charles.

Upon Joseph ferdinand's death, there were two main claims remaining. One was the Bourbon claim of Louis the dauphin, the other that of Leopold, the Holy Roman emperor, Charles's cousin and the husband of his sister. However, giving him the succession poses the same problem that giving Louis the succession did: him inheiriting Spain would reunite the old habsburg empire, a prospect that few looked forward to. In addition, the french claim was (arguably) superior to his. Both Louis and Leopold defered their claims to their children to younger sons (Philip duke of anjou and the Archduke Charles, respectivly), but that didnt change the basic problems inherent in the situation that would evolve were either party given the throne.

There arent that many other claimants, unless you go much farther (i.e. remoter) back or have more of Philip IV's children survive. His only children to survive to adulthood were Charles and his sisters, who became the queen of france and holy roman empress respectivly (their descendent's claims were described above). Philip III had more children reach adulthood, but that doesnt help. Of his sons, only Philip had (legitimate) children, and his two daughters to mature married and were Louis XIV and Leopold's mothers, thus making them more or less irrelevant (although Leopold's best claim comes from his mother, to be fair). In short, the Spanish Habsburgs were fatally lacking in surviving heirs, especially ones not related to Louis or the Austrian Habsburgs.
 
Outside of bavaria though the war could not have been prevented. either way the two royal houses would clash over spain. Yes the balance of power would be tipped but say England and Lous sighn a treaty saying that Louis would not take anything beyond the combined spanish and french empire and relinquich all other claims. Also give The British and dutch continued trade in his empire (throw in a nice navel disarment treaty for extra smiles). He would make this treaty because he didnt need to expand and giving free trade to the dutch and British is worth not having another grand alliance.

As for Austria well the combined might of Franco spain will be more than enough and i dont think the british (now having free rain over the rest of the world and trade where they dont control) wont have need to ally with the Europe minded Austrians. the Dutch will have also sighned the non expanding treaty so they can keep their precious independence without worries.
 
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