What if La Grande Mademoiselle married?

Anne Marie Louise d'Orléans, Duchess of Montpensier, was born in 1627, the niece of King Louis XIII of France. She inherited a vast fortune from her mother, including the Dauphinate of Auvergne and the sovereign principality of Dombes. She made herself even richer by acquiring properties like the county of Eu, which brought her an extra 100,000 livres a year.

Various marriages were considered for her - with the Emperor, with the Cardinal-Infante Ferdinand, with King Philip IV of Spain, with the Duke of Savoy, with the King of Portugal, with the King of England.

My question is, what would happen if she married abroad?
If she did hold on to all her property, how would having a foreign monarch owning such vast properties within France affect the course of 17th century politics? After all, if you have a huge part of your estate tied up in France, you're not going to want risk losing it all by offending the French...with potentially major butterflies for whichever country's foreign policy.

Thoughts?
 
I can only recall William of Orange losing his estate by a french monarch. So i think it depends what state does the inheriting. Savoy was always close to France so I think they would be fine with that. The English were working on restoration and dealing with a Protestant parliament so a huge French inheritance would not win James any political points.
 
I can only recall William of Orange losing his estate by a french monarch. So i think it depends what state does the inheriting. Savoy was always close to France so I think they would be fine with that. The English were working on restoration and dealing with a Protestant parliament so a huge French inheritance would not win James any political points.

Interesting. So the other state definitely inherits? No chance of the French trying to buy the estates, or come to some sort of agreement over them? I can't see Louis XIV happily having the Emperor, or a son of the Emperor+Mademoiselle, as a major land-owner in his realm.
 
Interesting. So the other state definitely inherits? No chance of the French trying to buy the estates, or come to some sort of agreement over them? I can't see Louis XIV happily having the Emperor, or a son of the Emperor+Mademoiselle, as a major land-owner in his realm.


According to wikipedia:

In 1544, William I "the Silent", count of Nassau, with large properties in the Netherlands, inherited the title Prince of Orange. William, 11 years old at the time, was the cousin of René of Châlon who died without an heir when shot at St. Dizier in 1544 during the Franco-Imperial wars. René, it turned out, willed his entire fortune to this very young relative. Among those titles and estates was the Principality of Orange. René’s mother, Claudia, had held the title prior to it being passed to young William since Philibert de Châlon was her brother.

When William inherited the Principality, it was incorporated into the holdings of what became the House of Orange. This pitched it into the Protestant side in the Wars of Religion, during which the town was badly damaged. In 1568 the Eighty Years' War began with William as stadtholder leading the bid for independence from Spain. William the Silent was assassinated in Delft in 1584. It was his son, Maurice of Nassau (Prince of Orange after his elder brother died in 1618), with the help of Johan van Oldenbarnevelt, who solidified the independence of the Dutch republic. The United Provinces survived to become the Netherlands, which is still ruled by the House of Orange-Nassau.

As an independent enclave within France, Orange became an attractive destination for Protestants and a Huguenot stronghold. William III of Orange, who ruled England as William III of England, was the last Prince of Orange to rule the principality. Since William III died childless in 1702 the principality became a matter of dispute between Frederick I of Prussia and John William Friso of Nassau-Dietz, who both claimed the title Prince of Orange. The principality was captured by the forces of Louis XIV under François Adhémar de Monteil Comte de Grignan, in 1672 during the Franco-Dutch War, and again in August 1682. The territory was finally ceded to France by Frederick I of Prussia in 1713 under the Treaty of Utrecht that ended the wars of Louis XIV. Frederick I, however, did not give up his title, Prince of Orange.

It seems like only if you literally were the worst enemy of France, then your lands would be taken from you. I don't know if it was because the Principality wof Orange was much poorer than the lands of La Grande Mademoiselle, but I think the European monarchs basically respected the property of fellow nobles. After all even when the French Kingdom was steep into debt, they never thought of taxing the Nobles too much for their lands. I think there was a basic internationality of Feudal Europe.

I didn't get a chance to read about the specific situation of La Grande Mademoiselle, but these were just my thoughts.
 
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But there is a difference between Orange and most of the territories held by the Duchess of Montpensier. Orange was an indepedendent principality, recognised as such by the powers. But most of the lands of the Grande Mademoiselle were considered part of the Royal Domain, and they could be confiscated by the king. Montpensier was taken by Francis I before, and Auvergne too. Hell, even Dombes, that was an independent principality was taken temporarily by Francis. And why are talking about Louis XIV here, I wouldn't doubt that he could find a way to annex these territories to the Crown Domain due to their owner's "treason".
 
But there is a difference between Orange and most of the territories held by the Duchess of Montpensier. Orange was an indepedendent principality, recognised as such by the powers. But most of the lands of the Grande Mademoiselle were considered part of the Royal Domain, and they could be confiscated by the king. Montpensier was taken by Francis I before, and Auvergne too. Hell, even Dombes, that was an independent principality was taken temporarily by Francis. And why are talking about Louis XIV here, I wouldn't doubt that he could find a way to annex these territories to the Crown Domain due to their owner's "treason".

Agreed. He'd probably confiscate the Mademoiselles lands once her husband did something to displease him. There's nothing really stopping him from forcing her to will the lands to one of his illegitimate sons as IOTL. She did marry, late in life, but it eventually displeased Louis XIV. The exact same situation would happen here.
 
But there is a difference between Orange and most of the territories held by the Duchess of Montpensier. Orange was an indepedendent principality, recognised as such by the powers. But most of the lands of the Grande Mademoiselle were considered part of the Royal Domain, and they could be confiscated by the king. Montpensier was taken by Francis I before, and Auvergne too. Hell, even Dombes, that was an independent principality was taken temporarily by Francis. And why are talking about Louis XIV here, I wouldn't doubt that he could find a way to annex these territories to the Crown Domain due to their owner's "treason".

Her lands were part of the royal domain? Do you mean as appanages, or just as regular fiefs of the French crown?

Is it likely we'd see Mademoiselle's lands being exchanged with the Crown in return for hard cash payment (paid in installments)? OTL she refused to marry the King of Portugal because she reckoned she'd be forced to sell her properties to fund his war effort, so I guess she expected to hold on to *something* even after a foreign marriage.
 
I think the Charles' wouldn't be able to marry her seeing that she's catholic. OR if he does you still have the Glorious revolution kicking out any male catholic heirs.

I don't think a Hapsburg could marry her considering the enimity between them and France.

I don't see Louis having a problem with her marrying the Portuguese King, the Duke of Savoy, or another minor sovereign. Like her half sister did with the Grand Duke of Tuscany.
 
I think the Charles' wouldn't be able to marry her seeing that she's catholic. OR if he does you still have the Glorious revolution kicking out any male catholic heirs.

I don't think a Hapsburg could marry her considering the enimity between them and France.

I don't see Louis having a problem with her marrying the Portuguese King, the Duke of Savoy, or another minor sovereign. Like her half sister did with the Grand Duke of Tuscany.

Charles II married a Catholic Princess IOTL: Catherine of Braganza. It caused issues, but there was nothing stopping him from doing it. I don't see why he can't marry the Grand Mademoiselle instead. Charles II and Louis XIV were very buddy buddy after the Restoration, and the King of England even counted amongst his pensioners.
 
Charles II married a Catholic Princess IOTL: Catherine of Braganza. It caused issues, but there was nothing stopping him from doing it. I don't see why he can't marry the Grand Mademoiselle instead. Charles II and Louis XIV were very buddy buddy after the Restoration, and the King of England even counted amongst his pensioners.

Wasn't Charles considered as a candidate to be her husband when he was still in exile, but she dismissed him as he was only a claimant withouth a throne?
 
I think the Charles' wouldn't be able to marry her seeing that she's catholic. OR if he does you still have the Glorious revolution kicking out any male catholic heirs.

I don't think a Hapsburg could marry her considering the enimity between them and France.

I don't see Louis having a problem with her marrying the Portuguese King, the Duke of Savoy, or another minor sovereign. Like her half sister did with the Grand Duke of Tuscany.

Well, Louis' mother Queen Anne was eager to marry Mademoiselle to her own brother the Cardinal-Infante Ferdinand, and both the Emperor and King of Spain were considered as well. I think the traditional enmity between Habsburg and France would play into how her property was disposed of, but the marriages were definitely considered suitable matches for her.

Savoy didn't want her because she was too old, and she didn't want Portugal because he was a mere usurper who might lose his crown/make her sell her property, as well as being a generally unpleasant idiot and cripple. She was also against the marriage because she thought it would cause perpetual war between France and Spain. I'd say Savoy is as minor as she'd be willing to go, being a daughter of France and sovereign in her own right she was very particular about making an equal match.
 
Wasn't Charles considered as a candidate to be her husband when he was still in exile, but she dismissed him as he was only a claimant withouth a throne?

She dismissed him because a better match came along, which came to nothing. Can't remember if it was Savoy or the death of the Empress which got her excited, but yeah. After Charles was restored the marriage was brought up again (by his mother primarily) but he himself apparently hated Mademoiselle now and Mademoiselle thought it improper for her to accept him in his glory having rejected him in harder times (she probably knew he hated her and was trying to save face).
 
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Charles II married a Catholic Princess IOTL: Catherine of Braganza. It caused issues, but there was nothing stopping him from doing it. I don't see why he can't marry the Grand Mademoiselle instead. Charles II and Louis XIV were very buddy buddy after the Restoration, and the King of England even counted amongst his pensioners.
I don't know but there is a bit of a difference between an English king marrying a Portuguese princess and a French noblewomen. I can see a Protestant parliamentarian rationalizing a marriage between an old ally and enemy of Spain. Not to mention Catherine came with Bombay and Tangiers. I know that parliament didn't have a direct say but it wasn't so long ago that a Stuart got his head taken off. Charles II did pay attention to what his political enemies were thinking. And gaining estates in France would ingratiate an English monarch to Louis.

Although if Charles II was more absolutist and less of a compromiser he might have jumped at the deal. But in that case I see Louis xiv probably intervening in the resultant civil war. Or perhaps if that marriage is made in exile, restoration would occur with a French invasion.
 
Charles II married a Catholic Princess IOTL: Catherine of Braganza. It caused issues, but there was nothing stopping him from doing it. I don't see why he can't marry the Grand Mademoiselle instead. Charles II and Louis XIV were very buddy buddy after the Restoration, and the King of England even counted amongst his pensioners.
But Portugual was our oldest ally (for almost three centuries, even then...) whereas France was a traditional enemy...
 
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La Grande Mademoiselle wasn't a noblewoman, she was a daughter of France with an immense fortune. Charles had been living in France and was her first cousin, a French marriage would have been quite natural - so much so his sister Henrietta went over and married another cousin, the Duke of Orléans.

Catherine of Braganza was the daughter of a Portuguese duke who rebelled against the recognised King of Portugal and usurped his throne. In the male line the Braganzas were illegitimate, and Catherine's mother was mere Spanish nobility - their claim to the throne came from her grandmother, who was an infanta of Portugal. The reason she came with such a huge dowry is because her royal status wasn't recognised by anyone outside of Portugal at the time, and there was every chance her brother would get removed by the Habsburgs.
 
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