What if Joanna of Navarre and Jacqueline of Hainaut

What if Joanna of Navarre had children with Henry IV and Jacqueline of Hainaut had children with Humphrey what would be the consequences of them having children and having Plantagenet heirs.
 
Henry IV having children with Joanna of Navarre wouldn't change his succession : Henry V was Henry IV's eldest son and would succeed him. As for Navarra, it works for nothing since Joanna had an older brother (King Charles III of Navarra) who himself had children (Blanche of Navarra, Queen of Navarra and queen consort of John II of Aragon).
Besides the fact it could had people in the successoral order after Henry IV's three sons from his first marriage (Henry V, John of Bedford, Humphrey of Gloucester), I don't see how much History would be changed. This could secure more Lancastrian heirs if the Roses War still shows up though.

Humphrey having children with Jacqueline of Hainaut on the other hand could have butterflies. From what I read, the Yorkists were supporting Humphrey's policies before he died. With Humphrey having an heir, the Yorkists might choose to support Hupmhrey's heir rather than rebel, although claiming the crown for themselves is likely to be tempting.
Another thing is that Humphrey's children would come after Henry VI and Edward of Westimnster in the Lancastrian succession (since John of Bedford died childless), which would change the Roses' War's course if it still happens.
 
While agreeing with Yorel, I think this could have been quite significant longer-term. Henry VI ended up quite isolated in terms of close family; another uncle or two from his grandfather's second marriage, plus the odd cousin from Duke Humphrey's rather questionable first, could have given his court a quite different look and reduced the prominence of York. They would also have provided a deeper Lancastrian succession as remarked, avoiding the situation where for years the King was essentially heirless apart from York, creating expectations in him.

Children of Humphrey and Jacqueline would have inherited a continuing claim to Holland and Hainaut, which might or might not have been prosecuted. That is, they would if they were legitimate, and Humphrey might have shown some vigour in defending the validity of his marriage in order to ensure their legitimacy for England, if not the Continental counties, and refrained from his scandalous second marriage to Eleanor Cobham, as indeed he would have had to while Jacqueline lived.

Beyond that, descendants in legitimate line of Humphrey and of his younger half-siblings or sibling would clearly have taken priority over Richmond as Lancastrian standard-bearer; to say that the latter's hereditary claim was tenuous is really being too polite to it, but there was literally no one else to lead opposition to Richard III. With continuing lines from these two unions, even if there had still been a Richard III (not certain, as there might not have been an Edward IV before him) there would not have been a Henry VII, or not the one we had anyway, and that would make an enormous difference.
 
Henry VI seems to have made up for what he lacked in relatives by having favorites instead, which did a great deal to leave York's prominence rather...limited.

Would make a difference, yes, but this probably isn't one of the areas it would change the balance of the court (when it comes to the two roses).
 
Children of Humphrey and Jacqueline would have inherited a continuing claim to Holland and Hainaut, which might or might not have been prosecuted.

I tend to think that it would not be prosecuted, as that land was then held by Burgundy, and it had revolted away from Jacqueline's rule. Frankly any attempt to retake that land, aside from in a period when Burgundy was falling apart (supposing that would even happen as it didn't OTL) would be a disaster.
 
Henry IV having children with Joanna of Navarre wouldn't change his succession : Henry V was Henry IV's eldest son and would succeed him. As for Navarra, it works for nothing since Joanna had an older brother (King Charles III of Navarra) who himself had children (Blanche of Navarra, Queen of Navarra and queen consort of John II of Aragon).
Besides the fact it could had people in the successoral order after Henry IV's three sons from his first marriage (Henry V, John of Bedford, Humphrey of Gloucester), I don't see how much History would be changed. This could secure more Lancastrian heirs if the Roses War still shows up though.

Humphrey having children with Jacqueline of Hainaut on the other hand could have butterflies. From what I read, the Yorkists were supporting Humphrey's policies before he died. With Humphrey having an heir, the Yorkists might choose to support Hupmhrey's heir rather than rebel, although claiming the crown for themselves is likely to be tempting.
Another thing is that Humphrey's children would come after Henry VI and Edward of Westimnster in the Lancastrian succession (since John of Bedford died childless), which would change the Roses' War's course if it still happens.
I think if the child of Joanna of Navarre is a girl she will marry into the French nobility, if he is a boy he will be just another Arthur or Richard II or he might be an infante in Navarre.
 
Bumping this as thought about the effects of a son of Joan and Henry IV last night

I think if the child of Joanna of Navarre is a girl she will marry into the French nobility, if he is a boy he will be just another Arthur or Richard II or he might be an infante in Navarre.

A son - probably named John - would likely participate in the wars in France. Assuming he doesn't butterfly things too much any offspring he has will impact lead Lancastrians.
I doubt he'd interven in Navarre as he's too far down the succession but any sons he has could do if their not distracted by their claims to the English Throne.

Any thoughts on who John could marry and what his title would be?
 
Bumping this as thought about the effects of a son of Joan and Henry IV last night



A son - probably named John - would likely participate in the wars in France. Assuming he doesn't butterfly things too much any offspring he has will impact lead Lancastrians.
I doubt he'd interven in Navarre as he's too far down the succession but any sons he has could do if their not distracted by their claims to the English Throne.

Any thoughts on who John could marry and what his title would be?

I think he could be a second husband to Catherine of Valois or an ancestor to an Alternate "Henri IV" merging his bloodline to the Bourbons..
 
I could see this John being created Duke of Hereford, though Earl of Richmond is a possibility as his half brother John hasn't been created that yet.

As for marriages, could he win over Richard Duke of York by marrying his older sister Isabella?
As side effect it would remove York from claiming the crown and give *Hereford a claim from most lines. That is we could see York supporting Hereford as a replacement for Henry VI.
 
I could see this John being created Duke of Hereford, though Earl of Richmond is a possibility as his half brother John hasn't been created that yet.

As for marriages, could he win over Richard Duke of York by marrying his older sister Isabella?
As side effect it would remove York from claiming the crown and give *Hereford a claim from most lines. That is we could see York supporting Hereford as a replacement for Henry VI.

I also see him marrying Catherine of Valois as her second husband once Henry V dies.
 
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