What if Italy did not take part in World War One?

Another interesting thought - would the Germans (and, possibly, the Austrians if they dared) go far enough into Russia that they would get a smackdown from General Winter? I don't know how close to Moscow they tgot OTL in WW1, but with no Brusilov Offensive, you could see them pushing to really nail the Russians.

Of course, that would be balanced against the possibility that if Austria pushes far enough to take some of the Ukraine, there goes Russia's breadbasket.
 
I think it would be tough for the Entente to enforce on Italy the sort of blockade they enforced on the Dutch and Scandinavians. I imagine the US would really get upset if the British tried to throttle trade with such a big country, plus it would be physically difficult to patrol so many ports including Italian colonies and neutral powers. Italy could be Germany's windpipe for trade, and perhaps a bit of a breadbasket as well.

The Brits developed a system where they did not depend much on blockading ports, that was the last layer in their method. The short version is they used their considerable economic and diplomatic muscle to halt exports to the Central powers before they were shipped. After that Suez & Gibraltar were a useful gate for inspecting blockade runners. Any cargo ship passing the canal or strait that was not on the certification list as contraband free would be stopped, inspected & seized if warranted. This is how the blockade functioned against neutral Italy September 1939 to June 1940.
 
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The British and the French sent 11 division post Caporetto to reinforce the italian line...but more for showing political support and soon (a month) they returned in France; the Entente left in Italy just 5 division (3 French and 2 British) that were used principally for reserve and saw very limited combat and that is probably even less of the men that the French Army will have kept at the italian border to block the Italians from having 'strange ideas' if they remain neutral

The US sent a infantry division & built that up to a corps, tho the second div saw little combat.
 

RNG

Banned
How about these?

1. Italy does enter the war. The Central Powers instead of marching though Belgium use the extra troops to march across the French German border and so Britain never enters the war. France quickly falls to the The Central Powers. Russia then sends a peace treaty with Germany. The US and Germany grows closer together and fight Japan together after German and American territory is attacked, Britain and a reluctant France fought alongside as well. France and Germany remain enemies yet never go to war again. Germany sets up a organisation similar to the E.U. to promote trade across Europe. Instead of a special relationship between America and Britain it is between Germany and America, Britain still is friends with them yet is often shunned by the two. Russia never went communist as Germany help to get rid of them. There is never any cold war between any nations however nuclear weapons were created to fight Japan.

1. Italy does enter the war. Germany marches though Belgium and Britain fights them. After the Americans entered the war Austria Hungary thought they may lose and decided they should make peace and concentrate on internal problems. The Ottomans soon followed suit. Germany then surrender as well yet got a peace treaty similar to the Treaty of Versailles. Austria Hungary then collapses and soon after so do the Ottomans. Hitler still rises and World War Two still happens yet Germany falls quicker without a fascist Italy. Operation Downfall leads to a spilt Japan with a communist North and capitalist South. America helps the French keep Indochina and help prop up the British and French empire yet India gets self governance a few years after Queen Elizabeth's reign. Nuclear weapons are created during the Korean War and keep China from entering the war as America and China agree to not fight, and so Korea is unified. The Soviet Union fall quicker in this timeline.
 
The Brits developed a system where they did not depend much on blockading ports, that was the last layer in their method. The short version is they used their considerable economic and diplomatic muscle to halt exports to the Central powers before they were shipped. After that Suez & Gibraltar were a useful gate for inspecting blockade runners. Any cargo ship passing the canal or strait that was not on the certification listen as contraband free would be stopped, inspected & seized if warranted. This is how the blockade functioned against neutral Italy September 1939 to June 1940.

How did the blockade function against neutral Italy between August 1914 and May 1915?

I think the OTL blockade of Germany and north-west European neutrals was pretty easy, they're small countries who don't matter much and whose trade has to pass right by Britain so is easy to search. In contrast Italy is a big country which does matter, how much bilateral trade did Italy have the with US, enough that attempts to throttle it would be met with much more resistance than the throttling of Dutch trade? Also Britain limited Dutch trade in contraband to pre-war levels, I imagine a big country like Italy would import comparatively huge amounts of contraband, limiting them to pre-war levels might leave some left over for re-export.

Leaving aside international trade what can Italy export from her own resources? Did she produce surplus food for example?
 
I think with Italy, from memory, the bugbear was its coal supply. The Italians needed a lot of it, and I don't think they got much of it from Germany in 1914. I think it was imported from overseas, meaning that they had an incentive to make sure there was no trouble with the French or British on trade. Italian coal imports might be the first thing to check.
 
I think the coal shortages in Germany were mainly transportation related, perhaps if Italy can come and get the coal themselves then I'm sure they can buy some from Germany and AH.
 

NoMommsen

Donor
I think the coal shortages in Germany were mainly transportation related,
...
Of wich coal shortage and especially at what point of time do you talk here ?

The coal shortage starting in late 1916 ? ... with the onset of the infamous, misconcepted, more devastating than building up "Hindenburg"-program ?

Well, there was - rather shortly - also a relative coal shortage/production drop during the first 2-4 month of the war in 1914 due to a lack of working force due to conscription
But this also started to cease again with the starting of the system of service exemptions for industry - weapons and ammo as well as mining - in october/november 1914 IIRC from Gerald Feldman : Army, Industry and Labor in Germany 1914-1918.


I think with Italy, from memory, the bugbear was its coal supply. The Italians needed a lot of it, and I don't think they got much of it from Germany in 1914.
...
Well, what about :
Instead of "parking" the 60.000 italian foreign miners and steel workers from Alsac-Lorrain in Hessia during the first 2 days of August and repatriating them after the finished deployment from last week of August onwards ...
why not employ them in the german coal mines of the Ruhr or Silesia, half of the by them "produced" coal for Germany, half of it for Italy ?
 
Of wich coal shortage and especially at what point of time do you talk here ?

The coal shortage starting in late 1916 ? ... with the onset of the infamous, misconcepted, more devastating than building up "Hindenburg"-program ?

The latter, which IIUC didn't just fall out of the sky, it built up slowly before becoming an actual shortage.
 
Well, what about :
Instead of "parking" the 60.000 italian foreign miners and steel workers from Alsac-Lorrain in Hessia during the first 2 days of August and repatriating them after the finished deployment from last week of August onwards ...
why not employ them in the german coal mines of the Ruhr or Silesia, half of the by them "produced" coal for Germany, half of it for Italy ?

Sounds like a plan if the Italians chose to play ball. Historically, Rome wanted to see how the Schlieffen thing worked out. When it went off script, Germany's ace card - the reputation of its army - took a hit.
 
How did the blockade function against neutral Italy between August 1914 and May 1915?

It did not function very well anywhere in those months. Initially the Germans suffered from its merchant fleet being impounded, or hiding in neutral ports. After it was apparent the war was not going to end by Christmas, and probably the next Christmass Germany & Austria began seeking imports via neutrals. The Brits had foreseen that, but it took a while to work out a system for interdicting Central Powers trade globally. As 1915 played out it was becoming apparent what was going to work and the effects were starting to appear.

I think the OTL blockade of Germany and north-west European neutrals was pretty easy, they're small countries who don't matter much and whose trade has to pass right by Britain so is easy to search. In contrast Italy is a big country which does matter, how much bilateral trade did Italy have the with US, enough that attempts to throttle it would be met with much more resistance than the throttling of Dutch trade? Also Britain limited Dutch trade in contraband to pre-war levels, I imagine a big country like Italy would import comparatively huge amounts of contraband, limiting them to pre-war levels might leave some left over for re-export.

Yes it did. thats why the Brits low balled their allowances for what the neutrals required. By 1917the Dutch and Scandinavian economies were experiencing pain due to the blockade allowances. Britain also was taking a close look at what went into the cargo ships headed for the neutrals of interest. Critical items Germany had to have were in some cases prohibited entirely. I recall mention of a proposal for British inspectors in the neutrals, to see what went on rail cars or barges destined for Germany, in exchange for easing the allowances. Don't know if that plan was accepted or not.

Leaving aside international trade what can Italy export from her own resources? Did she produce surplus food for example?

Maybe some grain from Africa or fruit. Italian marble was a big deal then, so was its wine. A big Italian export was labor. Pre 1914 a noticeable number of Italian workers found employment in Germany. Remittances from Italian labor in Germany, the US ect... was important.
 
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