What if Italy became the dominant power in World War Two.

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In any hypothetical scenario involving an alternate outcome to World War Two, said outcomes could be innumerable and hard to predict accurately. I'd like to go into detail of one particular alternate history setting:


Our timelines diverge in 1914, an Austrian corporal Adolf Hitler becomes yet another nameless figure in the seemingly infinite casualty dossier in WWI. Shot by a British soldier. Years afterward, World War One is lost, the allies won and the Treaty of Versailles is enacted. It is now 1921, and a fragile Weimar Republic teaters on the edge of collapse, with the stock market crash of 1920. Fast forward years later and during 1930, she starts to get back upon her feet again, slowly but surely. The treaty of Versailles still constricting her armed forces. And with no NSDAP forming into the Nazi Party, various political powers vie for control over Weimar. Most Putsch are put down, and governmental crackdowns are few. But a new power is rising. Fascist Italy. In this setting Italy invades Abyssinia early, in 1932, but receives small, but costly sanctions from the other nations and the League. This cuts her off from resources, and deprives her military of crucial raw materials. With no attention on a Fascist Germany, the eyes of the world are set on Italy. Without proper resources to fight (Italy already had resources problems so any sanctions would further extrapolate the problem further), Italy looses the war with Abyssinia. Still reeling from defeat, years later in 1934, she starts again, after initiating military reforms.
Benito Mussolini strikes next at Albania, and successfully takes it. This time, world pressure is turned on Mussolini. Italy begins to experience even more sanctions from the now stronger League of nations. But in Germany multiple political rivals enter into conflict, throwing Germany into disarray. Factions arrive and the military completely dissolves into different regions, each wishing to claim Germany for itself. World eye is now on Germany, and the growing crises. Italy sees this as a chance to secure critical resources at its neighbor, Greece. They mobilize their navy and land forces on Greece. Greece, still recovering from the Stock Market crash of 1920, cannot defend its islands against Italian strikes. In a campaign that is nearly reminiscent of the
 
Ehm nice thoughs but sorry, not possible...at least in this manner.

Italy get the unwritten 'permission' to invade Abyssinia to make her stay on the Stresa Front, without this need London and Paris will just say no (Benny was aggressive...not idiot, at least in this period), and in any case a victory by Ethiopia is not in the card even with the sanctions, best scenario for everyone is Italy getting some small territory in Ogaden and Tigre as a facesaving measure to bring her to the negotiation table.

More importantly, Italy it's not capable to start a world war, don't have enough resources and military capacity; you need at least a different leader than Mussolini and less tollerance towards the inefficiency of the industrial sector so to keep the rich guys quiet.

Let's say that D'Annunzio instead of Mussolini become Duce and the man it's totally not interested in day to day administration, so there is the change that more capable men take control of the foreign ministry and the military-industrial complex. The good thing about the 'Vate' is that the man is aggressive and stupid.
Naturally Italy can't do it alone, maybe an alliance with Austria (OTL italian puppet before the union with Germany) and Hungary or/and Bulgaria to 'resolve' the post-wwi grievance. We can add Spain both as an ally (if the rightist coup succeed and civil war is averted) or as the first battleground.
 
You need to get rid of Mussolini before you've got any chance of pulling this off, as he was an absolute dunce at military matters, and not great at economic ones.
 
I'd think if Italy stayed out of he war, or maybe joined the Allies late in the game it would have benefitted in a big way economically. Still that does not seem like enough to move to #1 even briefly.
 
Dominant Italy

I'm glad I have timestamps on everything I write offline!

I had this same thought a few months back. The problem though is like was said, economic, industrial, and fighting "spirit." Not to mention Mussolini. So how to create an Italy that corrects these problems, and addresses ore importation, steel-making capabilities, and more?

Combine science fiction with alternate history, ala Turtledove is how.

I originally had another book I was working on that dealt with themes about religion through a first contact situation, complete with faster than light ships, interstellar war, the whole nine yards. But it had to be under 100 pages. Was driving me crazy. So I said to heck with it and added a twist about 65 pages in...

I had this idea about Nuovo Roma, so I combined the two. The remnants of Earth's alien invaders, in order to save the planet, send a man back in time to 1910 so he can make Italy the dominant Axis partner in the 30s and beyond. He does this by taking back just a little alien tech (basically a printer loaded with thousands of designs of Earth technology from the 1940s, 50s, and 60s) and a steam trunk full of cash and securities, which he amasses into a Bill Gates kind of fortune... but in the 19 teens. The goal is to turn the planet to green technology by the 1960s and avoid the cold war entirely so our atmosphere and climate are in better shape when Earth gets hit by the interstellar war in the 2100s. Hey, adding greentech opens a larger market for me...

It's been fun but demanding, researching Italian history in detail, ore importation tonnage, where it was coming from and going in the 1930s, steel-making and aluminum construction and manufacturing techniques, propulsion engineering, shipbuilding, etc. A lot of research. I have to exaggerate production numbers some (tank and aircraft production, for example, by about 30 percent) but I don't want to seem like it's done by magic. I'm not Lady Rowling, after all. As if time travel isn't magic...

Besides, if you had 50 billion US dollars in Italy in 1920 you could boost production numbers, too.

And I have to build in some romance. But that's easy enough. Triangles, when in doubt always use triangles. Easiest to write when nobody wins in combat l'amour.

My assumption is that Italy didn't have to become a world power by 1940, but it COULD have, with the help my scenario adds, pushed the Brits from the Mediterranean prior to 1942, and thus there is no Allied push in North Africa, then Italy.

Of course, I give the Italians three Illustrious class aircraft carriers with steam catapults and F6 Hellcats, F8 Bearcats, and SBD Dauntlesses and a few other twists and turns by which they can do this. We have Gibraltar instead of Taranto as the first major carrier force assault. I try to keep the tech introduction to only a decade ahead, no jets and guided missiles in 1940.

Anyway, my two cents.

(PS: WW2 in Europe ends, in my timeline, with Italy pushing through to the Arabian Peninsula and Iraq. Germany loses Hitler, Goering, and Himmler to a French resistance bomb just after an Italian air raid in Moscow kills Stalin and Beria in 1944, with their respective countries continuing to fight until anarchy prevails. The Mediterranean Treaty Organization, consisting of Spain, Italy, Yugoslavia, Albania, and Greece has to then occupy and rebuild Germany and Russia.)

(PSS: Instead of genocide, while still brutal and bigoted Italy convinces the Germans to expel instead of kill. So, a Jewish fighting force is assembled and used for a Normandy-style invasion of the Palestine Mandate before the Brits sue for armistice.)
 

Andre27

Banned
My main concern with Italy as the dominant power in WW2 is the lack of an industrial basis. While Nazi Germany could never match the economic prowess of the US or UK i had a solid economic base in the Rhineland.

As far as i know Italy is lacking any meaningful economic capacity.
How does Italy plan to counter France? Does it also develop a blitzkrieg doctrine and how does Italy plan to use said strategy since the terrain doesn't favour mobile warfare against France.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_invasion_of_France#Italian_decision_to_go_to_war
 
Italy struggled against Austria in ww1, even though Austria had to fight on 3 fronts, but Italy could concentrate only 1. Moreover Italy in ww1 needed major industrial military supplies from Britain and France, and even supporting divisions from these countries, to make any progress (just as it needed the same sort of things in ww2 from Germany).

To put it another way, I don't think Italy is a great power in ww1 or ww2, as it just hasn't got what it takes.

Even were Italy to bloodlessly conquer Greece, Albania, Ethiopia, and even Yugoslavia in the 30s and 20s, it still won't add to Italy's military power by the 40s, it will just spread Italian forces out more thinly.
 
If Italy is "the dominant power in World War Two" then clearly none of Britain, France, the USSR, Germany or the US are involved. And probably not Japan.

Thus it must be a vastly different war, where Italy, a handful of Latin American nations, a handful of African nations, some Asian nations (e.g. Thailand) are at war in some combination. The war is fought all over the world, but if Italy is the largest power....
 
Italy struggled against Austria in ww1, even though Austria had to fight on 3 fronts, but Italy could concentrate only 1. Moreover Italy in ww1 needed major industrial military supplies from Britain and France, and even supporting divisions from these countries, to make any progress (just as it needed the same sort of things in ww2 from Germany).

To put it another way, I don't think Italy is a great power in ww1 or ww2, as it just hasn't got what it takes.

Even were Italy to bloodlessly conquer Greece, Albania, Ethiopia, and even Yugoslavia in the 30s and 20s, it still won't add to Italy's military power by the 40s, it will just spread Italian forces out more thinly.
I spend a lot of time in the book bringing Italy up to snuff industrially and culturally in the 1920s. Plus, with the time travel twist, they get tons of 1950s and 1960s military hardware. Believe me, there's a reason no one ever tries to make Italy top dog, so I made a point out of putting the background in.
 
If Italy is "the dominant power in World War Two" then clearly none of Britain, France, the USSR, Germany or the US are involved. And probably not Japan.

Thus it must be a vastly different war, where Italy, a handful of Latin American nations, a handful of African nations, some Asian nations (e.g. Thailand) are at war in some combination. The war is fought all over the world, but if Italy is the largest power....
Kinda. I put a twist in after the war where instead of the Korean Conflict, Ukraine under Krushchev breaks from the USSR and that becomes the flash point. The hard part was the two chapters bringing Italy into superior industrial capabilities. I think I did my homework... sorry for the late reply. I got sick.
 
Italy struggled against Austria in ww1, even though Austria had to fight on 3 fronts, but Italy could concentrate only 1. Moreover Italy in ww1 needed major industrial military supplies from Britain and France, and even supporting divisions from these countries, to make any progress (just as it needed the same sort of things in ww2 from Germany).

To put it another way, I don't think Italy is a great power in ww1 or ww2, as it just hasn't got what it takes.

Even were Italy to bloodlessly conquer Greece, Albania, Ethiopia, and even Yugoslavia in the 30s and 20s, it still won't add to Italy's military power by the 40s, it will just spread Italian forces out more thinly.
I use an economic twist to get the Adriatic nations in line -- the Adriatic Trade Organization. I tried to think of all this. Sorry for the late reply, I've been ill.
 
If Italy is "the dominant power in World War Two" then clearly none of Britain, France, the USSR, Germany or the US are involved. And probably not Japan.

Thus it must be a vastly different war, where Italy, a handful of Latin American nations, a handful of African nations, some Asian nations (e.g. Thailand) are at war in some combination. The war is fought all over the world, but if Italy is the largest power....
Sorta. With futuristic tech (1950s) Italy strikes first and fast. With time travel you can do anything... :) Sorry for the late response, hasn't been a good year for health.
 

ben0628

Banned
Keeping Italy neutral in WW1 is a good way to help them grow stronger. Selling food, resources, and material to both sides would make them extremely wealthy and their population growth wouldn't be affected by WW1 casualties. Hell even if they were neutral they could still do probably get a few things at the treaty of Versailles. Either that or don't jump in until 1917/18.

As for Post World War One, an earlier discovery of Libyan oil would probably help immensely (idk if possible though).
 
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