What if Ireland stayed a part of the UK?

snerfuplz

From my understanding Ireland was on the path to home rule before World War 1 and it was only the heavy handed response to the Easter Rising that really turned public opinion toward independence.

Though I think a lot of unionist were opposed to home rule for the Northern part so there would be trouble as home rule approached
 

ShortsBelfast

Finbarr the Fair said:
the Tories not to 'play the Orange Card'.
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Even without the Tories taking up their cause, the Orange Card was well capable of playing itself
Finbarr the Fair said:
Which means the true PODs have to be earlier. Maybe Catholic Emancipation in 1801 and no efforts to whip up sectarian hatred by either side.
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That would be important, worsening sectarian relations have to be seen in the context of (a) a Presbyterian religious revival headed up by Carlyle and Hanna; and (b) a Roman Catholic religious revival headed by Cardinal Paul Cullen.
 
Ditzy Vixen (RossN)

Ditzy Vixen (RossN)

snerfuplz said:
From my understanding Ireland was on the path to home rule before World War 1 and it was only the heavy handed response to the Easter Rising that really turned public opinion toward independence.

Though I think a lot of unionist were opposed to home rule for the Northern part so there would be trouble as home rule approached
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Yes and no.

Certainly 'Home Rule' was the mainstream position pre-1914 but in many ways that meant quite different things in London and Dublin, as Unionists never tired of pointing out. Speeches and newspaper editorials from mainstream Nationalist newspapers definitely carried a much stronger tone than the relatively weak measure of devolved government Home Rule offered.

I think had Dominion status been on the table the IPP would have jumped for it, as would most Nationalists.
 
Femto

Femto

Banned
Can't Ireland be divided into Two Separate Dominions? Ulster and Ireland? It would be kinda like today with Northern Ireland having his own parliament but you would keep both Ireland as Dominions and would keep the peace back then and the door open to future federal representation in London.

Wouldn't the unionists be pleased about having their own dominion separated from Dublin?
 
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Dan1988

Dan1988

Femto said:
Can't Ireland be divided into Two Separate Dominions? Ulster and Ireland? It would be kinda like today with Northern Ireland having his own parliament but you would keep both Ireland as Dominions and would keep the peace back then and the door open to future federal representation in London.
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There is one problem - Protestants were only even dominant in a handful of counties in Ulster, not the whole province, but those few counties taken together were not enough to make a viable economic unit. Hence the OTL current shape Northern Ireland is now.
 

David T

RossN said:
I think had Dominion status been on the table the IPP would have jumped for it, as would most Nationalists.
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Dominions were not part of the UK. (Moreover, Dominion status is not an alternative to independence, since Dominions after the Statute of Westminster were independent.)
 

stodge

If Ireland remained an integral part of the UK it would have a political impact on the rest of the UK.

in 1911 the population of Ireland was 4.4 million compared to 4.7 million in Scotland. Irish politics had already developed separately from the UK and John Redmond's Irish Parliamentary Party won 74 seats at the December 2010 election becoming the third largest bloc behind the Tories and Liberals.

Redmond's MPs supported the Liberals and enabled Asquith to remain Prime Minister despite the large loss of seats from the 1906 landslide.

However, the prospect of all-Ireland self-government was viewed with horror by Carson in Ulster and he rapidly mobilised support among Ulster protestants against Home Rule and managed to get an amendment introduced which effectively kept Ulster outside the Home Rule proposals. The Nationalists raised their own Irish Volunteers as the polarisation and radicalisation of Ireland had begun before the onset of WW1.

If you want to keep Ireland part of the UK there needs to be a way to bridge the positions of Redmond and Carson. William O'Brien, who formed the All-for-Ireland League in 1909, recognised the concerns of Ulster (unlike Redmond, who seemed to believe Ulster would just follow the rest of Ireland into self-government) and had warned Redmond as bfar back as 1893 that the concerns of Ulster needed to be addressed.

Let's imagine O'Brien is seen as a bridge between the two positions and he puts forward (as he did in OTL) an all-Irish settlement and after kuch negotiation and arm-twisting, Carson and Redmond agree in early 1914 to a version of Home Rule which has safeguards built in to protect the position of Ulster within both the United Kingdom and the new all-Ireland self-government whose remit would purely be domestic affairs and from which all religions would be excluded.

With the reluctant support of both sides, Home Rule comes into effect in late 1914 and in the aftermath of the rapid allied victory over the German Empire in the Franco-German War of 1914, there is some spirit of compromise and the new all-Ireland Assembly meets in June 1915 in Dublin.
 
Femto

Femto

Banned
David T said:
Dominions were not part of the UK. (Moreover, Dominion status is not an alternative to independence, since Dominions after the Statute of Westminster were independent.)
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Its still better than what the British got.
 
Ditzy Vixen (RossN)

Ditzy Vixen (RossN)

David T said:
Well, the title of this thread is " What if Ireland stayed a part of the UK?"
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Indeed and my argument is that realistically it can't with a PoD after 1900.

Any Home Rule settlement will lead to a push for further powers and trying to indefinitely dodge giving away any measure of self government isn't feasible.
 
Femto

Femto

Banned
RossN said:
Indeed and my argument is that realistically it can't with a PoD after 1900.

Any Home Rule settlement will lead to a push for further powers and trying to indefinitely dodge giving away any measure of self government isn't feasible.
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Can't they create an English Parliament and let the Westminster one as a general parliament for the British Isles and the Empire? I believe this would help to dissipate a little bit of the feeling that the Union benefited the English only.

Imperial Federation was the British Empire's only hope.
 
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hammo1j

Donor
Will have a crack at a pod. Churchill's 1940 offer to unify France and the UK is accepted. Once the War is over this fereration of Natioms accepts a third Nation, Eire as France is majority Catholic.

Remember violence aside UK and Eire have ckose Economic ties.
 
Femto

Femto

Banned
hammo1j said:
Will have a crack at a pod. Churchill's 1940 offer to unify France and the UK is accepted. Once the War is over this fereration of Natioms accepts a third Nation, Eire as France is majority Catholic.

Remember violence aside UK and Eire have ckose Economic ties.
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So now you have the EU?
 
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