What if Hungarians were not so tolerant towards the minorities (1867-1918)

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Truth555

Banned
Quite hostile. You know, it is standard procedure to use only quotation marks to refer to a term someone else has used you disagree with. Not bringing out a word the other hasn't used. Using the word 'Fortunately' also seems a bit biased. And I don't question that Magyars formed a large portion of the Slovak population. Looking at any map of the areas seized from the Slovaks in the Vienna Accords points to that. And so what if Serbs were Ottoman era migrants in a period before Magyars came into the area in great numbers? And I am also aware of the system with Croats in the Austro-Hungarian Empire, but I thought it appropriate to bring it up the largest subgroup. I also don't thnik the Hungarians had any choice. The Croats were the historical border guards of the empire with their own kingdoms. Getting personal union was the best the Hungarians could hope for unless they wanted to try defeating some of the Empires crack troops.

Yes, You have right. Sometimes the sad facts and realities are "hostile" towards many national fairly tales.
"'Fortunately' also seems a bit biased. " As a Hungarian why should I be happy, when the Habsburgs (exactly Francis Joseph) unconstituonally make a putsch a Coup d'état against the existing legal and political orders, to erase entirely Kingdom of Hungary from the political map of Europe, and introduce his so-called backward neo-absolutism? This unlawful behavior of Francis Joseph against Hungary was condemned by all contemporary democratic countries (USA UK and France).

"And so what if Serbs were Ottoman era migrants in a period before Magyars came into the area in great numbers?"

Serbian population was expanded with Ottoman era conquest genocides in former Kingdom of Hungary, and they were active part in the Ottoman expansion and enormous genocides against Hungarians.

The vast majority of the seventeen and nineteen thousands Ottoman soldiers in service in the Ottoman fortresses in the territory of Hungary were Orthodox and Muslim Balkan Slavs instead of ethnic Turkish people.[17] Southern Slavs were also acting as akinjis and other light troops intended for pillaging in the territory of present-day Hungary. (See: nalcik Halil: "The Ottoman Empire") Serbian refugees formed ethnic majority in large parts of the Ottoman-controlled Hungary. That area included territories located between great rivers Sava, Drava, and the Danube–Tisza Interfluve (the territory between the Danube and Tisza rivers) (see: Carl Skutsch (2013). Encyclopedia of the World's Minorities. New York City: Routledge) Yes, I am happy to sent most of them back to the Balkans, and we don't need to speak Serbian in Budapest. Do you know what is the Danube–Tisza Interfluve ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danube–Tisza_Interfluve Just see the cities.


"The Croats were the historical border guards of the empire with their own kingdoms."
Wrong. Croatia has never been part of the Holy Roman Empire, not the Austrian Empire. The Kingdom was a part of the Lands of the Crown of St. Stephen between 1102 and 1918
 
Wrong. Fortunatelly Hungarian kingdom was not part of the "Reich" before 1849. Read the article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austro-Hungarian_Compromise_of_1867

"Hungarian political leaders had two main goals during the negotiations. First, as far as possible to regain the traditional status (both legal and political) of the Hungarian state, which was lost after the revolution of 1848; and second, to restore the reform laws of the revolutionary parliament of 1848, which were based on the 12 points that established modern civil and political rights, economic and societal reforms in Kingdom of Hungary.[1]"

The rapidly growing Slovak population was the largest minority (48% in 1910) in Hungarian upperland , but still a minority. See the censuses. Do not forget, That present-day Hungary became empty after the ottoman wars, The entire territory of modern Hungary was repopulated from Hungarian upper lands (now Slovakia), as Hungarians moved t south, Slovaks had more and more ethnic space. Yes, Slovaks were one of the massive beneficiaries of the genocides of the Ottoman wars.


Weren't the Serbians Ottoman era migrants in Hungary?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Migrations_of_the_Serbs

Didn't the Croats get autonomy in 1868? (Despite the fact, that ethnic autonomy didn't exist in pre-WW1 Western European states)

In the Siege of Buda 90% of the christian forces came from a lot of western European countries, instead of Eastern Europe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Buda_(1686)
Actually fro upper lands huge numbers of Slovak settler moved to Hingarian lower lands. There was . Around 0.5 million claimed Slovak as second language in Hungarian lower lands during last A-H census (would really need to check numbers) and there is small Slovak community till present. Slovak settlers moved also to todays Serbia, Croatia and Romania. But also Czech settlers. These minorities are living in these countries till present too.

There was however also huge emigration wave to US and Canada in late 19 century. Slovaks but also Hungarians. It went so far A-H military was pressing for not giving passport to men who didn't serve their term in military yet.

As to Hungarian treatment of minorities. All 3 Slovak High Schools were closed by Hungarian authorities closed in 1874/75. There was basically no Slovak high school till 1918.
That's pretty effective in times when grow depends on education.
 

Truth555

Banned
Actually fro upper lands huge numbers of Slovak settler moved to Hingarian lower lands. There was . Around 0.5 million claimed Slovak as second language in Hungarian lower lands during last A-H census (would really need to check numbers) and there is small Slovak community till present. Slovak settlers moved also to todays Serbia, Croatia and Romania. But also Czech settlers. These minorities are living in these countries till present too.

There was however also huge emigration wave to US and Canada in late 19 century. Slovaks but also Hungarians. It went so far A-H military was pressing for not giving passport to men who didn't serve their term in military yet.

As to Hungarian treatment of minorities. All 3 Slovak High Schools were closed by Hungarian authorities closed in 1874/75. There was basically no Slovak high school till 1918.
That's pretty effective in times when grow depends on education.

Since I hate racism, so It was a good idea to close racist institutions. I think their racism in the reality, comes from a false stupid irrational ethnic inferiority feeling, which try to transform the ethnic identity into a superior one, to oppress the frustration of their own community. (like nazi Germany after the WW1 defeat)

Theoretically Slovak Grammar schools were not banned, just Schools which were operated by the Matica Slovenska organization, because the spread of racial hatred and hostility in their schools, and they write and printed racist school texbooks. Since most of their grammar schools were operated by Matica Slovenska organization, the banned organization had to stop his activity. Hungarian Pm asked the Slovak leaders to establish a new organization, and rewrite their books in non-racist version. Which didn't happened. (This was the only case when secondary school was banned in the history of Hungary) Their history textbooks contained Slavic racial übermensch theory, that the Hungarians are Asian mongoloid invaders, who are physically intellectually inferior to them, and the Hungarians took control over the White civilized European Slovaks. In the reality, Eastern Slavic people (together with Northern Germanic and Northern German population) are genetically less European and a bit more mongoloid than Hungarians, (just see all Y DNA mt.DNA and the most important autosomal genetic researches of various European ethnic groups) Anthropologically Hungarians looks more Western than any other nations in former communist block countries. Anthropologically, you can easily pick up an Eastern Slav or Slovak or Balkanite person in a Western European street (like UK Ireland Benelux states Germany) than a Hungarian person.

You can not found any other grammar school which was banned in Hungary. Isn't it interesting? Racism is a bad thing. Thanks for the anti-racist laws, I don't think, such an organization (like the pre WW1 Matica Slovenska organization) could survive in present-day USA or present-day Western European countries.

Matica Slovenska was banned, and a new (non-racist) Slovak educational organization emerged. USe Google Translator: http://www.tankonyvtar.hu/hu/tartalom/historia/93-02/ch14.html

Matica Slovenska was reestablished after 1919, (and despite of anthropological and modern population genetical reality) the pseudo-scientific "primitive subhuman mongoloid inferior yellow-race Hungarians" propaganda tales re-emerged in textbooks of post War Czechoslovakian schools, which highly influenced the inter-war period Czechoslovak way of thinking, and it has strong effect in modern post communist politics. (Just see the racist remarks of many Slovak political leaders)
 
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Zagan

Donor
Yes, I am happy to sent most of them back to the Balkans, and we don't need to speak Serbian in Budapest.
I think their racism in the reality, comes from a false stupid irrational ethnic inferiority feeling, which try to transform the ethnic identity into a superior one, to oppress the frustration of their own community.
In the reality, Eastern Slavic people (together with Northern Germanic and Northern German population) are genetically less European and a bit more mongoloid than Hungarians
Anthropologically Hungarians looks more Western than any other nations in former communist block countries. Anthropologically, you can easily pick up an Eastern Slav or Slovak or Balkanite person in a Western European street (like UK Ireland Benelux states Germany) than a Hungarian person.
Wow, just wow.
 
Kick
It's no question that Hungary's treatment of minorities was beyond repressive, Truth. Nothing can fix the fact that Hungary was probably more oppressive towards its ethnic minorities than the British and French were to theirs (I refuse to count colonial subjects as ethnic minorities, as those are in relatively newly conquered lands far away from the motherland that included peoples of far different race/ethnicity/religion than said motherland, unlike, for example, a Picard vs. a Frenchman)

For example, the Hungarian Revolution of 1848. Your very POD. You claim it represents Hungary's far-too-liberal-for-the-time treatment of ethnic minorities in Transleithaia, yet it only seems to serve as a springboard for the opposition to pour in further evidence about the refutability of your claim. Here's a few reasons why:

First, your quote on Croatia:
"The Croats were the historical border guards of the empire with their own kingdoms."
Wrong. Croatia has never been part of the Holy Roman Empire, not the Austrian Empire. The Kingdom was a part of the Lands of the Crown of St. Stephen between 1102 and 1918
It is you who is wrong, Truth. Croatia was part of the Austrian Empire. So was Hungary. So was Transylvania. So was the Banat, and all the rest of the Lands of the Crown of St. Stephen. These lands were a unitary part of the Austrian Empire from 1804, when Kaiser Franz II declared himself Emperor of Austria, until 1867, when the Kaiser, Deak, and Andrassy formulated the Ausgleich, and it was divided into a real union from a unitary state. Think I'm wrong? Look it up, I'm sure you'll find in multiple sources that the Austrian Empire was one integral state that fully unified the once quasi-independent states of the Habsburg Monarchy into a centralized state, if not a nation-state.
Wrong. Fortunately Hungarian kingdom was not part of the "Reich" before 1849. Read the article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austro-Hungarian_Compromise_of_1867
Excellent job, Truth! You just refuted your own point! By claiming the Kingdom of Croatia, which as you said was a part of Hungary, was never a part of Austria, only to say it was from 1849 on. Well, that's just the period of martial law. It is true that Hungary was ruled by the Austrians directly from Vienna from 1804 on, but you can't seem to accept your country's "loss of independence".
Just look the contemporary pre-WW1-era Europe:
Magyarization was not so harsh as the contemporary western European situation, because the minorities were defended by minority rights and laws. Contemporary Western European legal systems did not know the minority rights, therefore they covered up their minorities. Just a short comparison between Hungary and pre-WW1 Western European states: 1.Were there state sponsored minority schools in Western European countries? NO. 2. How many official languages existed in Western-European states? Only 1 official language! 3. Could minorities use their languages in the offices of public administration in self-governments , in tribunals in Western Europe? No, they couldn't. 4. Did the minorities have own fractions and political parties in the western European parliaments ? No, no they hadn't. 5. What about newspapers of ethnic minorities in Western Europe? They did not exist in the West.... We can continue these things to the infinity.



The imagined alternative past, modelled on contemporary Western European reality:

The law about ethnic minority rights didn't exist.
The ethnic minority schools and secondary schools didn't exist in Kingdom of Hungary.
The ethnic minority-based parliamentary parties didn't exist in Kingdom of Hungary.
The minority languages didn't exist in judicial courts in Kingdom of Hungary.
The minority languages didn't exist in public administration in Kingdom of Hungary.
The minority language newspapers didn't exist in Kingdom of Hungary.
Wow, ethnic minority rights in an Eastern European country when Western Europe was considered a "haven of forward ideological thought?". That's crazy! Never seen something like that before! Oh wait, yes I fucking have. And in the so-called "coup d'etat" nation, Austria. They had ethnic minority rights in their lands too, you know. Here's a link to the de facto independence of Galicia and Lodomeria after the Ausgleich, as one example. Wonder if you have the brainpower to find some more, or if you won't eveit's not Hungary that's getting any autonomy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Galicia_and_Lodomeria#Galician_autonomy and http://ww1.habsburger.net/en/chapters/compromise-vienna-polish-autonomy-galicia
Since I hate racism, so It was a good idea to close racist institutions. I think their racism in the reality, comes from a false stupid irrational ethnic inferiority feeling, which try to transform the ethnic identity into a superior one, to oppress the frustration of their own community. (like nazi Germany after the WW1 defeat)

Theoretically Slovak Grammar schools were not banned, just Schools which were operated by the Matica Slovenska organization, because the spread of racial hatred and hostility in their schools, and they write and printed racist school texbooks. Since most of their grammar schools were operated by Matica Slovenska organization, the banned organization had to stop his activity. Hungarian Pm asked the Slovak leaders to establish a new organization, and rewrite their books in non-racist version. Which didn't happened. (This was the only case when secondary school was banned in the history of Hungary) Their history textbooks contained Slavic racial übermensch theory, that the Hungarians are Asian mongoloid invaders, who are physically intellectually inferior to them, and the Hungarians took control over the White civilized European Slovaks. In the reality, Eastern Slavic people (together with Northern Germanic and Northern German population) are genetically less European and a bit more mongoloid than Hungarians, (just see all Y DNA mt.DNA and the most important autosomal genetic researches of various European ethnic groups) Anthropologically Hungarians looks more Western than any other nations in former communist block countries. Anthropologically, you can easily pick up an Eastern Slav or Slovak or Balkanite person in a Western European street (like UK Ireland Benelux states Germany) than a Hungarian person.

You can not found other grammar school which was banned in Hungary. Isn't it interesting? Racism is a bad thing. Thanks for the anti-racist laws, I don't think, such an organization (like the pre WW1 Matica Slovenska organization) could survive in present-day USA or present-day Western European countries.

Matica Slovenska was banned, and a new (non-racist) Slovak educational organization emerged.
This post is just pure and complete bullshit. I'm not a Slovak, but the sheer inaccuracy and bias in infuriating. There was no evidence whatsoever that Matica Slovenska was circulating any racist, anti-Magyar propaganda around anywhere, NOT ONE BIT! And you know what, Truth? You know what? Whatever Magyar spread this bullshit actually spread more bullshit about his own country. Since, if you look at it a certain way, he's not wrong about Magyars just being Asian Mongoloid invaders from far down the steppes that just so happened to settle in Carpathia, cause that's exactly how it happened with Arpad! Also, take a guess where the lands of Matica Slovenska went to. If you guessed "Hungarian ultranationalist group disguised as educational society, you guessed right!" And if there's anyone here who's racist, asshole, it's most definitely YOU. Going on and on about how Hungary is #1 with ethnic minority laws is pretty racist towards other countries since it implies they're incapable of doing what some shitty, backward, pre-industrial, rural-as-fuck, third world country in Eastern Europe was able to do for a couple of months before collapsing in the face of an enemy invasion which was supported pretty heavily by those ethnic minorities they were promoting. And also, another thing that's racist about you: You think all people of an ethnic group look the same. For example, your claim that a Magyar looks more European than a Balkan man or an East Slav. Wow, so what you're trying to say is that all Hungarians look hip and western while everybody in Eastern Europe who isn't a part of the vast and superior Magyar nation does not look like a European? Pretty racist, man. (Waiting for you to call me racist for hating on Hungarians). And also, could you provide a bit of evidence for this slavic ubermensch theory? Just to make sure it's not bullshit, even though it's pretty much alright confirmed that it is.

Here's a good post on the true and heartfelt sincerity of Hungarian interaction and relationship with ethnic minorities: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magyarization#State_policy_and_ethnic_relations

And another one, that accurately displays the "liberal outlook of the Kossuth government on minority relationships": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magyarization#Allegation_of_violent_oppression
It displays how the Magyar Revolutionaries ruthlessly imprisoned or killed many Slovak romanticists simply for loving their nation in a similar way to a Hungarian's love of his nation. Is this a crime? No. You seem to think that ruthless imprisonment of those people that are proud of their country is the same as liberal laws about minority rights. It's not, it's much, much different.

Alright that's pretty much all I got, mongoloid fuccboi.
 
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Since I hate racism, so It was a good idea to close racist institutions. I think their racism in the reality, comes from a false stupid irrational ethnic inferiority feeling, which try to transform the ethnic identity into a superior one, to oppress the frustration of their own community. (like nazi Germany after the WW1 defeat)

Theoretically Slovak Grammar schools were not banned, just Schools which were operated by the Matica Slovenska organization, because the spread of racial hatred and hostility in their schools, and they write and printed racist school texbooks. Since most of their grammar schools were operated by Matica Slovenska organization, the banned organization had to stop his activity. Hungarian Pm asked the Slovak leaders to establish a new organization, and rewrite their books in non-racist version. Which didn't happened. (This was the only case when secondary school was banned in the history of Hungary) Their history textbooks contained Slavic racial übermensch theory, that the Hungarians are Asian mongoloid invaders, who are physically intellectually inferior to them, and the Hungarians took control over the White civilized European Slovaks. In the reality, Eastern Slavic people (together with Northern Germanic and Northern German population) are genetically less European and a bit more mongoloid than Hungarians, (just see all Y DNA mt.DNA and the most important autosomal genetic researches of various European ethnic groups) Anthropologically Hungarians looks more Western than any other nations in former communist block countries. Anthropologically, you can easily pick up an Eastern Slav or Slovak or Balkanite person in a Western European street (like UK Ireland Benelux states Germany) than a Hungarian person.

You can not found other grammar school which was banned in Hungary. Isn't it interesting? Racism is a bad thing. Thanks for the anti-racist laws, I don't think, such an organization (like the pre WW1 Matica Slovenska organization) could survive in present-day USA or present-day Western European countries.

Matica Slovenska was banned, and a new (non-racist) Slovak educational organization emerged. USe Google Translator: http://www.tankonyvtar.hu/hu/tartalom/historia/93-02/ch14.html

Matica Slovenska was reestablished after 1919, (and despite of anthropological and modern population genetical reality) the pseudo-scientific "primitive subhuman mongoloid inferior yellow-race Hungarians" propaganda tales re-emerged in textbooks of post War Czechoslovakian schools, which highly influenced the inter-war period Czechoslovak way of thinking.
So Hungarian authorities closed Slovak Highs schools because they were rasist but forgot to open new one. It was after all Slovaks fault they didn't had economical means to open new one after property of rasist one was taken by state. Interestingly though Budapest disn't used these property to open their own Slovak high schools. For some 48 years.

Interestingly after 1938 many rasist Slovak High Schools were closed at new incorporated territories. Now however not all as Slovak government now was able to do the same and from time to time used this threat.

As to picking up Slovak on the street of western cities now? Hardly. Slovaks and Hungarians are so mixed up. In my entire life I have seen one Hungarian who had mongoloid look. That was some 20 years ago during University exchange.

Honestly I am more likely to pick up Polish person by look then Slovak, Hungarian, Austrian or Czech.
 
They did. They rapidly oppressed minorities within "The Kingdom of Hungary". If you took every law ever passed at face value you'd believe the Democratic People's Republic of Korea was a shining beacon of democracy. Hungary up to 1918 rabidly oppressed its minorities. Even after 1918 from 1938-1945 they oppressed Ukrainians, Romanians, and Slovaks. Magyarization is well known. It is a well documented historical fact. The truth is that it occurred and continued to occur for a long period of time.

It would be much more productive if Hungarians in general (or at least those that I'm acquainted with) , focused less on the past which they cannot change, and more on the future which can only be changed. Sure the past is important, very important, but you can't change it, nor should you be disingenuous about what occurred or why it did. Just look at the facts.
 
In the reality, Eastern Slavic people (together with Northern Germanic and Northern German population) are genetically less European and a bit more mongoloid than Hungarians, (just see all Y DNA mt.DNA and the most important autosomal genetic researches of various European ethnic groups) Anthropologically Hungarians looks more Western than any other nations in former communist block countries. Anthropologically, you can easily pick up an Eastern Slav or Slovak or Balkanite person in a Western European street (like UK Ireland Benelux states Germany) than a Hungarian person.

I did not know it was a competition. Considering Hungarians come from the Urals and Germans and Slavs come from Europe I tend not to buy into your claims. Not that it really matters either way.

You're better off focusing on things that matter, this, this does not matter. This is irrelevant and merely used to assuage your views which are negative towards Slavs and other groups that were formerly "minorities" within the "Kingdom of Hungary" a Kingdom I'll remind you that less than 50% Hungarian in 1914.

I think this thread should be removed, it isn't contributing anything to anything.
 

CalBear

Moderator
Donor
Monthly Donor
It's no question that Hungary's treatment of minorities was beyond repressive, Truth. Nothing can fix the fact that Hungary was probably more oppressive towards its ethnic minorities than the British and French were to theirs (I refuse to count colonial subjects as ethnic minorities, as those are in relatively newly conquered lands far away from the motherland that included peoples of far different race/ethnicity/religion than said motherland, unlike, for example, a Picard vs. a Frenchman)

For example, the Hungarian Revolution of 1848. Your very POD. You claim it represents Hungary's far-too-liberal-for-the-time treatment of ethnic minorities in Transleithaia, yet it only seems to serve as a springboard for the opposition to pour in further evidence about the refutability of your claim. Here's a few reasons why:

First, your quote on Croatia:
It is you who is wrong, Truth. Croatia was part of the Austrian Empire. So was Hungary. So was Transylvania. So was the Banat, and all the rest of the Lands of the Crown of St. Stephen. These lands were a unitary part of the Austrian Empire from 1804, when Kaiser Franz II declared himself Emperor of Austria, until 1867, when the Kaiser, Deak, and Andrassy formulated the Ausgleich, and it was divided into a real union from a unitary state. Think I'm wrong? Look it up, I'm sure you'll find in multiple sources that the Austrian Empire was one integral state that fully unified the once quasi-independent states of the Habsburg Monarchy into a centralized state, if not a nation-state.
Excellent job, Truth! You just refuted your own point! By claiming the Kingdom of Croatia, which as you said was a part of Hungary, was never a part of Austria, only to say it was from 1849 on. Well, that's just the period of martial law. It is true that Hungary was ruled by the Austrians directly from Vienna from 1804 on, but you can't seem to accept your country's "loss of independence".
Wow, ethnic minority rights in an Eastern European country when Western Europe was considered a "haven of forward ideological thought?". That's crazy! Never seen something like that before! Oh wait, yes I fucking have. And in the so-called "coup d'etat" nation, Austria. They had ethnic minority rights in their lands too, you know. Here's a link to the de facto independence of Galicia and Lodomeria after the Ausgleich, as one example. Wonder if you have the brainpower to find some more, or if you won't eveit's not Hungary that's getting any autonomy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Galicia_and_Lodomeria#Galician_autonomy and http://ww1.habsburger.net/en/chapters/compromise-vienna-polish-autonomy-galiciaThis post is just pure and complete bullshit. I'm not a Slovak, but the sheer inaccuracy and bias in infuriating. There was no evidence whatsoever that Matica Slovenska was circulating any racist, anti-Magyar propaganda around anywhere, NOT ONE BIT! And you know what, Truth? You know what? Whatever Magyar spread this bullshit actually spread more bullshit about his own country. Since, if you look at it a certain way, he's not wrong about Magyars just being Asian Mongoloid invaders from far down the steppes that just so happened to settle in Carpathia, cause that's exactly how it happened with Arpad! Also, take a guess where the lands of Matica Slovenska went to. If you guessed "Hungarian ultranationalist group disguised as educational society, you guessed right!" And if there's anyone here who's racist, asshole, it's most definitely YOU. Going on and on about how Hungary is #1 with ethnic minority laws is pretty racist towards other countries since it implies they're incapable of doing what some shitty, backward, pre-industrial, rural-as-fuck, third world country in Eastern Europe was able to do for a couple of months before collapsing in the face of an enemy invasion which was supported pretty heavily by those ethnic minorities they were promoting. And also, another thing that's racist about you: You think all people of an ethnic group look the same. For example, your claim that a Magyar looks more European than a Balkan man or an East Slav. Wow, so what you're trying to say is that all Hungarians look hip and western while everybody in Eastern Europe who isn't a part of the vast and superior Magyar nation does not look like a European? Pretty racist, man. (Waiting for you to call me racist for hating on Hungarians). And also, could you provide a bit of evidence for this slavic ubermensch theory? Just to make sure it's not bullshit, even though it's pretty much alright confirmed that it is.

Here's a good post on the true and heartfelt sincerity of Hungarian interaction and relationship with ethnic minorities: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magyarization#State_policy_and_ethnic_relations

And another one, that accurately displays the "liberal outlook of the Kossuth government on minority relationships": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magyarization#Allegation_of_violent_oppression
It displays how the Magyar Revolutionaries ruthlessly imprisoned or killed many Slovak romanticists simply for loving their nation in a similar way to a Hungarian's love of his nation. Is this a crime? No. You seem to think that ruthless imprisonment of those people that are proud of their country is the same as liberal laws about minority rights. It's not, it's much, much different.

Alright that's pretty much all I got, mongoloid fuccboi.
Oh, HELL no!

Last sentence alone gets you a week on the sidelines.

Never pull this again.
 

CalBear

Moderator
Donor
Monthly Donor
What if Hungarians were not so tolerant towards the minorities (1867-1918), and they introduce brutal Western European style oppression against the minorities? Would they carve up their minorities?

The reality:

In July 1849, the Hungarian Revolutionary Parliament proclaimed and enacted the first laws on ethnic and minority rights in the world. It gave minorities the freedom to use their mothertongue at local administration, at tribunals, in schools, in community life and even within the national guard of non-Magyar councils. However these laws were overturned after the united Russian and Austrian armies crushed the Hungarian Revolution. After the Kingdom of Hungary reached the Compromise with the Habsburg Dynasty in 1867, one of the first acts of its restored Parliament was to pass a Law on Nationalities (Act Number XLIV of 1868).


The situation of minorities in Hungary were much more better than in contemporary pre WW1 Europe. Other highly multiethnic /multinational countries were: France Russia and UK.


See the multi-national UK:

The situation of Scottish Irish Welsh people in "Britain" during the English hegemony is well known. They utmost forgot their original language, only english language cultural educational institutions existed. The only language was English in judiciary procedures and in offices and public administrations. It was not a real "United" Kingdom, it was rather a greater England.


See the multiethnic France:

In 1870, France was a similar-degree multi-ethnic state as Hungary, only 50% of the population of France spoke the French language as mothertongue. The other half of the population spoke Occitan, Catalan, Corsican, Alsatian, West Flemish, Lorraine Franconian, Gallo, Picard or Ch’timi and Arpitan etc... Many minority languages were closer to spanish or Italian language than French) French governments banned minority language schools , minority language newspapers minority theaters. They banned the usage of minority languages in offices , public administration, and judiciary procedures. The ratio of french mothertongue increased from 50% to 91% during the 1870-1910 period!!!

The situation in German Empire was well known (Polish territories)

What about Russia?

Russian Empire was even more multiethnic state than Hungary (60% of the population was non-russian), without the existence of minority rights. The forced russification is also well known


Just look the contemporary pre WW1-era Europe:
Magyarization was not so harsh as the contemporary western European situation, because the minorities were defended by minority rights and laws. Contemporary Western European legal systems did not know the minority rights, therefore they covered up their minorities. Just a short comparison between Hungary and pre-WW1 Western European states: 1.Were there state sponsored minority schools in Western European countries? NO. 2. How many official languages existed in Western-European states? Only 1 official language! 3. Could minorities use their languages in the offices of public administration in self-governments , in tribunals in Western Europe? No, they couldn't. 4. Did the minorities have own fractions and political parties in the western European parliaments ? No, no they hadn't. 5. What about newspapers of ethnic minorities in Western Europe? They did not exist in the West.... We can continue these things to the infinity.



The imagined alternative past, modelled on contemporary Western European reality:

The law about ethnic minority rights didn't exist.
The ethnic minority schools and secondary schools didn't exist in Kingdom of Hungary.
The ethnic minority-based parliamentary parties didn't exist in Kingdom of Hungary.
The minority languages didn't exist in judicial courts in Kingdom of Hungary.
The minority languages didn't exist in public administration in Kingdom of Hungary.
The minority language newspapers didn't exist in Kingdom of Hungary.
Uh...

I don't even know where to begin with this crap you rolled out here.

I'll just make it simple. Banned for trolling straight out of the gate.

We divorce you.
upload_2017-6-27_8-42-4.png
 
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