What if Horatio Nelson survived?
- Thread starter Vera Strawberry
- Start date
Probably not, but I never said it would. I simply was discussing the political effects of Nelson surviving.
They did, actually.
On the 1812 matter, if Nelson is running the show on the north american fleet, wouldnt it be within his prerogative to
- Fit at least a few of the ships with better weapons and such? Parliament would have to sign ff on it monetarily but his prowess militarily is gonna make him hard to say no to here
- Even if he wasn't commanding individual ships he would absolutely be in his right to dictate where squadrons go and make it hard to get any one on one confrontation?
So, Nelson would demote himself to a frigate captain, and discover firsthand the superiority of American 44s? Nelson was a bold leader who promoted none standard fleet tactics. He used tactics successfully that other admirals had been shot for trying and failing at. In a one on one frigate action I don't know what he would have done differently than the captains who lost did. Like almost all of them he would assume any encounter would have to end in only one way, a British victory. He had seen the USS Constitution and been impressed so maybe he might have been more cautious if he allowed himself to believe he was outmatched.
That assumes Nelson would be senior admiral of the fleet, he was not. The North American Station in 1812 was a backwater that a legendary admiral wouldn't be assigned to. Your somehow assuming Nelson would magickly divine that American heavy frigates were so superior that British frigates were no match for them, and issue fleet wide orders that frigates were not to sail alone. He also couldn't change the armament of British ships. The British believed 24 pounders were too heavy for frigates, and would degrade their sailing performance.
I think the amazing potential here for the British War effort is that under Nelson someone like Thomas Cochrane can thrive. Post Trafalgar whilst no battle will match it in scale, Cochrane's tactics if embraced rather than snubbed would be remarkable to behold. If Cochrane would accept Nelson as his 'patron', and I believe he would, you could see A) a rather remarkable partnership, B) radical changes to British naval doctrine, and C) Cochrane rise further up the ranks rather than driven out of the Royal navy and public life, if C happens then D) this has possibly large ramifications in South America.
Nelson would end up ruined by his relationship with Emma Hamilton. With the French navy destroyed society would be less and less inclined to tolerate his abandoning his wife and child for a courtesan.
With regards to American frigates and the War of 1812, their victories were almost wholly meaningless to the wider war. The war at sea was almost about commerce raiding, and unless America suddenly decides to build 5-10x as many frigates the outcome will be the same. If a handful more get sunk or survive the war at sea goes exactly as was historically.
The only way Nelson makes a difference in that war is if he angers literally everyone in the entire navy and political establishment and finds himself exiled to the Great Lakes squadron. Which isn't quite ASB, but it almost beggars belief.
The only way Nelson makes a difference in that war is if he angers literally everyone in the entire navy and political establishment and finds himself exiled to the Great Lakes squadron. Which isn't quite ASB, but it almost beggars belief.
The 7 years between Trafalgar and 1812 is more than enough time for Nelson to suffer the consequences of his personal life and be exiled to the Great Lakes. Like I said polite society would have eventually turned on him for abandoning his wife and child for a courtesan, even more so due to the fact she was a nobleman's wife. That George III called Sir William Hamilton his foster brother makes Nelson's position even more precarious.
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Look at the guys who went over: James Yeo and Robert Barclay were almost virtual nobodies. Nelson's fame alone means he won't get punted to the edge of the world.
Having said that, I suspect that if Barclay wins the Battle of Lake Erie he probably gets called "The Canadian Nelson" (because he was also missing his arm) even though the stakes are lower and number of ships involved is tiny.
Sir William was well disposed to keep both his eyes closed about Emma and Nelson and in any case he was already dead at Nelson’s death (reason for which Nelson Was trying to divorce from his wife for remarrying to Emma). And about what child you are talking? Nelson’s only child was born by Emma
Isn't this what happened to Thomas Cochrane in the case of Chile? It would definitely be an option if he ticked off enough people in Britain.
However, there is also the possibility that despite surviving Trafalgar, he could end up dead in battle either against Americans in 1812, or against the French in an alt-Battle of the Basque Roads
He'd most likely die during the first years of Queen Victoria's reign (considering he was born in 1758, which would make him 79 at the start of Queen Victoria's reign), if not during the reigns of either King George IV or King William IV.