What if HMS Resistance was completed as a Renown class battlecruiser

As any good student of modern Royal Naval history would know the last 3 Revenge class battleships were cancelled at the outbreak of the war due to the idea that the war would be over quickly. Due to Admiral Fisher's influence HMS Renown and HMS Repulse were reordered and completed as the Renown class battlecruisers. Suppose Admiral Fisher was able to get HMS Resistance reordered as a member of the Renown class as well. How would this affect the Royal Navy during WW1; the Interwar years including the various naval conferences(I personally think it means that the RN and USN both retain 16 capital ship post London Naval Treaty instead of 15); and of course the Second World War
 
I'd guess that Tiger gets Scrapped earlier, then during the 1930's one of the Revenge class gets used as a training ship instead of HMS Iron Duke.
 
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;)

Seriously, I think the impact of Resistance as a BC depends on where she falls in the RN leapfrogging around the fleet trying to keep the older ships modern. If she falls with Barham and Royal Oak, she'll be limited, as was Repulse falling with Malaya. Ideally, she might fall with Renown, but that might necessitate foregoing QE or Valiant. IIRC, Peter C Smith said Sommerville specifically chose Renown for his flagship over Repulse due to her AA firepower.

I think it's likely Resistance might go in the yards with Warspite, get re-boilered, have her main gun elevation increased and have an all-4in DP secondary; I really can't see the RN keeping the 4in triple LA mounts with 4in HA. (Warspite historically had 4 x 4in twins fitted for AA and kept some of her 6in casemates.)

As for impact, an additional fast capital ship will be boon to the RN. She would be hunting the Graf Spee, Scheer, the twins and Hipper if she were with the Home Fleet early in the war. She might be assigned to Gibraltar to give Sommerville an additional fast capital ship, which might mean she participates in Catapult, Grog and Spartivento.

If with the Home Fleet in 1941, she would be with the Battlecruiser Squadron, which might mean Prince of Wales is not rushed to completion. Resistance and Hood go to Denmark Strait. Assuming Hood is still lost, Resistance will shadow Bismarck; if her endurance is as good as Renown, she might be present for the final battle.

If not in need of a refit later in the year, she might get sent east with Prince of Wales. An additional ship with modern AA would help Phillips, but it probably won't save his command. There is a chance that Resistance and Repulse might survive and be withdrawn. They would give Sommerville a fast wing and good carrier escorts for his Eastern Fleet in 1942.

If not sent east, Resistance will spell Renown at Gibraltar and spare Sommerville from flying his flag on Malaya when Renown gets her refit. Renown joined the Home Fleet after that refit, so Resistance will stay in Gibraltar.

Barring an unforeseen appointment with a U-boat or Italian frogmen, Resistance will be sent to the Indian Ocean in 1944 and stay in the Far East until the end of the war, refits aside. Likely in better shape than Renown at this point (less stress on the hull from 4in twin deck mounts versus Renown's 4.5in between-deck turrets) she will be a great carrier escort, as Renown was. She'll join the British Pacific Fleet when it forms for the final assault on Japan. She might even get in the battleline with King George V and the US battleships to bombard the Hitachi steel works near Tokyo.

My initial thoughts,
 
I'd like to see her with Hood in the Denmark Strait and maybe just enough ripples Hood makes it back to port but the Bismark still does not and both Hood and her end up in the pacific in mid 43 thinking Australia after hood gets a refit in Boston or Philly
 
Personally I'm pretty sure the RN would fight tooth and nail to keep all of its 15" armed ships in active service at the London Naval Conference. Also the RN really did like having 4 battlecruisers has it enabled them to have a far better refit and later rebuild cycle.
 
Would an extra battlecruiser make it possible for Hood to have a pre-WW2 refit/reconstruction?

That's a tough call. Rodney and Nelson were actually ahead of Hood in the schedule because of the poor state of their electrical systems. With the international situation deteriorating in last half of the '30s, all three were in demand because of their firepower.

But having another fast ship does help, but without some kind of damage causing an extensive yard period, I think the rebuild of Queen Elizabeth or Valiant might have to be given up to get Hood in.

My thoughts,
 
That's a tough call. Rodney and Nelson were actually ahead of Hood in the schedule because of the poor state of their electrical systems. With the international situation deteriorating in last half of the '30s, all three were in demand because of their firepower.

But having another fast ship does help, but without some kind of damage causing an extensive yard period, I think the rebuild of Queen Elizabeth or Valiant might have to be given up to get Hood in.

My thoughts,
If only some very rich childless former captain or admiral kicked the bucket circa 1933ish and gave the RN about 12 million pounds in his will with the will stating it was to be used in rebuilding capital ships...that or a former admiral became the head of his majesty's treasury....hmm maybe ASB takes pity on the RN?
 
If only some very rich childless former captain or admiral kicked the bucket circa 1933ish and gave the RN about 12 million pounds in his will with the will stating it was to be used in rebuilding capital ships...that or a former admiral became the head of his majesty's treasury....hmm maybe ASB takes pity on the RN?
Your more likely to get monies out of the colonies. Perhaps the Federated Malay states offers a rebuild for HMS Malaya and someone decides to rebuild a Battlecruiser instead of Queen Elizabeth/Valiant since with the Malaya rebuild there is enough rebuilt Battleships.

Would an extra battlecruiser make it possible for Hood to have a pre-WW2 refit/reconstruction?
Hood due to her relative newness probably is at the bottom of the list for a rebuild. That said she may be in better condition due to having a lower operational tempo and a more sensible small refit schedule.

Personally I'm pretty sure the RN would fight tooth and nail to keep all of its 15" armed ships in active service at the London Naval Conference. Also the RN really did like having 4 battlecruisers has it enabled them to have a far better refit and later rebuild cycle.

I agree that the Royal Navy would fight tooth and nail to keep all 15" armed ships in active service and I would suspect that we would see Britain and USA keeping 16 capital ships in service after LNT.

There's so many incidents in ww2 where a small naval butterfly could cause major changes. Let's give Resistance to Glorious as an escort for example. Save the carrier then you have an extra carrier later. Let's say you doubledown on operation Judgement (replace Eagle with Glorious or add argus or Hermes to the Mediterranean fleet replacing their existing duties with Glorious) then you free up the Mediterranean fleet.

Or with more fast ships the Royal Navy is able to force Scharnhorst and Geneisenau to give battle damaging or killing them at some point. Then they aren't in Britanny allowing Britain to concentrate forces at Scappa instead of escorting high value convoys in case of a breakout.

Then when Bismarck sorties Resistance and Repulse are with POW and Hood at the Denmark straight and Bismarck probably withdraws or gets outgunned.

Or any additional butterfly you care to imagine. I can imagine five or six different scenarios where small additional forces could have caused a massive change in the war.
 
Your more likely to get monies out of the colonies. Perhaps the Federated Malay states offers a rebuild for HMS Malaya and someone decides to rebuild a Battlecruiser instead of Queen Elizabeth/Valiant since with the Malaya rebuild there is enough rebuilt Battleships.


Hood due to her relative newness probably is at the bottom of the list for a rebuild. That said she may be in better condition due to having a lower operational tempo and a more sensible small refit schedule.



I agree that the Royal Navy would fight tooth and nail to keep all 15" armed ships in active service and I would suspect that we would see Britain and USA keeping 16 capital ships in service after LNT.

There's so many incidents in ww2 where a small naval butterfly could cause major changes. Let's give Resistance to Glorious as an escort for example. Save the carrier then you have an extra carrier later. Let's say you doubledown on operation Judgement (replace Eagle with Glorious or add argus or Hermes to the Mediterranean fleet replacing their existing duties with Glorious) then you free up the Mediterranean fleet.

Or with more fast ships the Royal Navy is able to force Scharnhorst and Geneisenau to give battle damaging or killing them at some point. Then they aren't in Britanny allowing Britain to concentrate forces at Scappa instead of escorting high value convoys in case of a breakout.

Then when Bismarck sorties Resistance and Repulse are with POW and Hood at the Denmark straight and Bismarck probably withdraws or gets outgunned.

Or any additional butterfly you care to imagine. I can imagine five or six different scenarios where small additional forces could have caused a massive change in the war.
Another good example of this would be if the Courageous was lucky and like so many other German torpedoes in 1939 and early 1940 the torpedoes that hit her are duds, or HMS Seal wasn't captured and thus it takes the Germans far longer to fix their torpedoes.
 
Another good example of this would be if the Courageous was lucky and like so many other German torpedoes in 1939 and early 1940 the torpedoes that hit her are duds, or HMS Seal wasn't captured and thus it takes the Germans far longer to fix their torpedoes.
True, though I was attempting to list examples where extra forces cause the butterfly instead of luck.
 
One question not yet asked: Resistance would need a slipway, how would this affect the shipbuilding during WWI? Which other ships did John Brown & Company build in at the same time as Renown & Repulse?
 
I've been potentially looking into something similar lately. The major issue for any additional capital ship construction in Britain during 1915-1916 is that the current number of new ships being built in the UK is basically the absolute upper limit of what their government was willing to tolerate along with them hitting their bottlenecks when it came to turbines, armor and guns.
 
One question not yet asked: Resistance would need a slipway, how would this affect the shipbuilding during WWI? Which other ships did John Brown & Company build in at the same time as Renown & Repulse?
She was originally ordered from HM Dockyard Devonport as a R class battleship before being cancelled. I would assume that the slip planned for her would be used if built as a Battlecruiser.

I can see no major vessels of the Royal Navy laid down in that Dockyard after this. Presumably the dockyard was used for repair and refits and for smaller vessels.
 
I've been potentially looking into something similar lately. The major issue for any additional capital ship construction in Britain during 1915-1916 is that the current number of new ships being built in the UK is basically the absolute upper limit of what their government was willing to tolerate along with them hitting their bottlenecks when it came to turbines, armor and guns.
Given that HMS resistance was ordered historically I would doubt you are hitting the bottlenecks if you go on ot build her.
 
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