What if Hitler had not occupied Stalingrad?

Churchill

Banned
According to Hitler’s Directive 41 in mid 1942 it was intended Stalingrad be reached if possible but not occupied just brought under the range of heavy artillery and rendered useless as an industrial and communications centre.
If this had been carried out and the forces used there sent south could the Caucasus and Baku oil fields have been captured and held?
 

CalBear

Moderator
Donor
Monthly Donor
According to Hitler’s Directive 41 in mid 1942 it was intended Stalingrad be reached if possible but not occupied just brought under the range of heavy artillery and rendered useless as an industrial and communications centre.
If this had been carried out and the forces used there sent south could the Caucasus and Baku oil fields have been captured and held?


Long term?

Not a chance. The final toll of dead German troops might be a bit less, or at least they die with weapons in hand than in Gulag, but the Red Army was going to crush the Heer once it got its collective feet under it.
 
The defeat at Stalingrad led to the withdrawal of German troops from the Caucasus area. Without Stalingrad, Heer would have stayed there longer than IOTL.
If a Stalingrad-like disaster was avoided, the Wehrmacht would have to withdraw just after attrition has cost them so much troops that their postion is indefensibly. So, without Stalingrad the war is most likely prolonged.
 

burmafrd

Banned
The critical mistake was hitler getting obsessed with TAKING Stalingrad instead of just cutting it off and bypassing it- which was possible.
 
As others have commented, Stalingrad could have been pulverized while German forces were committed to the south. In truth Hitler had already made a critical mistake in deciding not to push for Moscow.
 
The whole '42 campaign was flawed and it would have been much better if German forces had not gone near Stalingrad, or having gone near it they should have turned around in september and withdrawn back into the Ukraine and let the Soviets try to meet on open and ravaged ground.

Suffice to say the Germans did not have the capacity to render Stalingrad inoperable by artillery alone. Fully encircling the city without taking it places them between a hammer and an anvil, hardly a sensible position to be in. Casualties are likely to be heavy and possibly catastrophic in yet another winter defensive operation.

Messing about in the Caucasus was probably just as unwise. Yes if they could reach Baku it would be worthwhile, but if Stalingrad falls taking Baku would have been a peice of cake. As it was the force there accomplished nothing of worth. Perhaps it is just our hindsight, but it seems possible someone somewhere could have worked out such was the likely outcome.
 
Well,I guess without the battle for the city,the Germans can turn their attention to the Soviet bridgeheads over the R.Don. If the bridgeheads are eliminated,the axis armies could use the R.Don as an anti-tank defense and effectively eliminate the North wing of any potential Soviet offensive. The Soviets could still threaten the Germans south of Stalingrad,like OTL,but a single thrust over the Volga into German lines is not going to achieve much. Without,the city battle,the extra German forces will probably capture Maikop and Grozny in the Caucasus,but Baku is a much harder target. Baku was heavily fortified and may prove as costly as Stalingrad OTL to directly occupy. However,the mere bombing/denial of oil from Baku will hurt the Soviet war economy,greatly. Ultimately,WW2 is prolonged,the A-bomb is probably dropped on Berlin and the Soviets are further east and thus in a weaker position during the Cold war.
 

Churchill

Banned
Well,I guess without the battle for the city,the Germans can turn their attention to the Soviet bridgeheads over the R.Don. If the bridgeheads are eliminated,the axis armies could use the R.Don as an anti-tank defense and effectively eliminate the North wing of any potential Soviet offensive. The Soviets could still threaten the Germans south of Stalingrad,like OTL,but a single thrust over the Volga into German lines is not going to achieve much. Without,the city battle,the extra German forces will probably capture Maikop and Grozny in the Caucasus,but Baku is a much harder target. Baku was heavily fortified and may prove as costly as Stalingrad OTL to directly occupy. However,the mere bombing/denial of oil from Baku will hurt the Soviet war economy,greatly. Ultimately,WW2 is prolonged,the A-bomb is probably dropped on Berlin and the Soviets are further east and thus in a weaker position during the Cold war.

Good post.
 

Germaniac

Donor
If the war is prolonged you will be looking at a germany that will take much longer to come back, cause unlike the japanese i dont see the germans surrendering. If Hitler can survive and enough military, even if just a majority of SS, fight on look at Frankfurt, Munich, Berlin, and Braslau all gone. This would be a devastating factor in cultural and future military history.
 
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