What If Hitler Had Arrested The Pope?

It is known that Hitler, at the time when Germany had Rome occupied in the summer of 1943, did consider ordering Pope Pius XII arrested. He even considerd murdering him. Pius was of course never arrested, but what if he had been?

In order for this to happen, Hitler would have had to go back on his promise not to invade the Vatican. How would the world, largely roman catholic, have reacted to the news? What exactly would have happened to Pius had he been arrested? What would the other leaders of the Church had done in the Popes absense?

Seeing as this is Hitlers plan, anything could have happened. Today, Pius might weell be rememberd as a saint, but hats just wild speculation.

Your Ideas?
 
It is known that Hitler, at the time when Germany had Rome occupied in the summer of 1943, did consider ordering Pope Pius XII arrested. He even considerd murdering him. Pius was of course never arrested, but what if he had been?

In order for this to happen, Hitler would have had to go back on his promise not to invade the Vatican. How would the world, largely roman catholic, have reacted to the news? What exactly would have happened to Pius had he been arrested? What would the other leaders of the Church had done in the Popes absense?

Seeing as this is Hitlers plan, anything could have happened. Today, Pius might weell be rememberd as a saint, but hats just wild speculation.

Your Ideas?

Where did you hear that Germany considered "arresting" the Pope?

Considering that "arresting" the Pope would mean "invading" the vatican and require them to take out the Swiss Guard you might well see Switzerland either a. declare war on Germany and/or b. freeze all german assets within Switzerland. Remember, "arresting" the Pope would be like "arresting" the King of Sweden. He is the legit leader of an independent nation.

Plus, this would not go over well at all with the Roman Catholics. First, how the hell do you excuse invading the Vatican of all places?
 
Where did you hear that Germany considered "arresting" the Pope?

Considering that "arresting" the Pope would mean "invading" the vatican and require them to take out the Swiss Guard you might well see Switzerland either a. declare war on Germany and/or b. freeze all german assets within Switzerland. Remember, "arresting" the Pope would be like "arresting" the King of Sweden. He is the legit leader of an independent nation.

Plus, this would not go over well at all with the Roman Catholics. First, how the hell do you excuse invading the Vatican of all places?

Actually Hitler contemplated with the idea of kidnapping Pope Pius XII as a pressure to Italians to stay in the Axis... Scorzeny had made some plans of the operation which would be similar to Mussolini's abduction... However this wasnt materialised... Besides Pius XII was aware of this danger and he had drafted an instrument instructing the College of Cardinals that in case he was kidnapped this would have counted as an abdication and Cardinals were to proceed in electing a new Pope...
 

King Thomas

Banned
South America declares war on Germany. Switzerland at least considers freezing German funds, and any German Catholics in the army have to choose between staying loyal to their oath to Hitler or trying to avenge the Pope. Italy goes into an anti-German ferment with partizan warfare everywhere.
 
Actually Hitler contemplated with the idea of kidnapping Pope Pius XII as a pressure to Italians to stay in the Axis... Scorzeny had made some plans of the operation which would be similar to Mussolini's abduction... However this wasnt materialised... Besides Pius XII was aware of this danger and he had drafted an instrument instructing the College of Cardinals that in case he was kidnapped this would have counted as an abdication and Cardinals were to proceed in electing a new Pope...

Yea, I remember hearing about something like that. Apparently, in the case of an invasion, he would use his old name Eugenio Maria Giuseppe Giovanni Pacelli (talk about a mouthful) as his cover and would manage to leave Italy.
 
Yea, I remember hearing about something like that. Apparently, in the case of an invasion, he would use his old name Eugenio Maria Giuseppe Giovanni Pacelli (talk about a mouthful) as his cover and would manage to leave Italy.

I dont think so... if he used this name he would be recognised and arrested in the first checkpoint from Vatican... According to custom Popes are not only known by their regnal name (aka Pius XII) but also as Pope Pacelli, Pope Ratti, Pope Ratzinger etc.
He had to use an alias and a VERY GOOD disguise if he wants to escape...
 
South America declares war on Germany. Switzerland at least considers freezing German funds, and any German Catholics in the army have to choose between staying loyal to their oath to Hitler or trying to avenge the Pope. Italy goes into an anti-German ferment with partizan warfare everywhere.
And Erie, De Vallera and the IRA would be forced to put their Anglophobia aside to support the Holy Father.
 
Well his full Italian name (IIRC) is the one that's on the birth certificate. Think - how many people would know what the Pope's real name was back then? Only the later ones, like Angelo Roncalli (John XXIII), Karol Wojytla (JP II) and Joseph Ratzinger (Benedict XIV), are known now because of the mass media, but back then? Also, IIRC, part of the disguise involved dressing as a peasant. In other words (custom aside, as even then custom could be suspended in wartime - hence "Signor Pacelli"), he'd probably blend in with the rest of the Italian populace. Now, if he decided to change that disguise into a Roman taxi driver, . . . :eek::D:rolleyes::cool:

I dont think so... if he used this name he would be recognised and arrested in the first checkpoint from Vatican... According to custom Popes are not only known by their regnal name (aka Pius XII) but also as Pope Pacelli, Pope Ratti, Pope Ratzinger etc.
He had to use an alias and a VERY GOOD disguise if he wants to escape...
 
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