What if Henry VI of England and Louis XI switch personalities

The two are contemporaries, Henry VI is so much meek and pious while Louis XI seem to play his vassals and enemies, can the two personalities be swapped?
 
Henry VI, the universal spider? Louis XI a useless figurehead? France barely survived Henry V, spider!Henry will relegate France to the dustbin of history.

This Henry won't be overrun by the Yorks, so Charles the Bold of Burgundy certainly won't be marrying a York, and will likely get sucked into the English web. The English Burgundian alliance will succeed politically and likely militarily. Charles the Bold's death at the Battle of Nancy is surely butterflied, and France will lose a good chunk of the former Angevin territory and Burgundy could be raised to a kingdom.

Things really get interesting if Charles the Bold doesn't have a son as heir in TTL. Mary the Rich is ideally placed to be married to Henry's son (whomever that may be) and that heir will be King of England and Burgundy. Poor France will get eaten away like Poland.
 
Henry VI, the universal spider? Louis XI a useless figurehead? France barely survived Henry V, spider!Henry will relegate France to the dustbin of history.

This Henry won't be overrun by the Yorks, so Charles the Bold of Burgundy certainly won't be marrying a York, and will likely get sucked into the English web. The English Burgundian alliance will succeed politically and likely militarily. Charles the Bold's death at the Battle of Nancy is surely butterflied, and France will lose a good chunk of the former Angevin territory and Burgundy could be raised to a kingdom.

Things really get interesting if Charles the Bold doesn't have a son as heir in TTL. Mary the Rich is ideally placed to be married to Henry's son (whomever that may be) and that heir will be King of England and Burgundy. Poor France will get eaten away like Poland.


If this really was the case, how do you see
Henry dealing with Joan of Arc? (Yes, I know
IOTL the English burned her- but not until
AFTER she'd turned the tide in the HYW).
 
I think Louis XI,or at least his immediate family members, will survive considering the Valois have no problems with their legitimacy.

So,who will Henry the Universal Spider marry?Still Margaret of Anjou or someone else?I think it would have been far more useful if he married someone else.
 
In this case, Henry VI will have Paris and the areas occupied by the english remain or reconquered and Aquitaine is restored to Bretigny borders..
 
If this really was the case, how do you see
Henry dealing with Joan of Arc? (Yes, I know
IOTL the English burned her- but not until
AFTER she'd turned the tide in the HYW).

Henry was only ~9 when Joan of Arc was executed IOTL- he's not old enough to deal with her, even if he is some uber-plotter.
 
Henry was only ~9 when Joan of Arc was executed IOTL- he's not old enough to deal with her, even if he is some uber-plotter.

Gotcha- I didn't really explain what I meant.
Which is- how would he have dealt with the
situation in France Joan created? IOTL Henry
(& the people running things in his name
during his minority) did a lousy job, as can
be seen by the fact that even with Joan dead
the tide of THYW flowed relentlessly against
the English until they had lost all of France
save Calais. In this senario, what would
Henry(& his men) do differently?
 
Gotcha- I didn't really explain what I meant.
Which is- how would he have dealt with the
situation in France Joan created? IOTL Henry
(& the people running things in his name
during his minority) did a lousy job, as can
be seen by the fact that even with Joan dead
the tide of THYW flowed relentlessly against
the English until they had lost all of France
save Calais. In this senario, what would
Henry(& his men) do differently?

Would he still take up government personally in 1437? How bad is the situation by that point?

And his first priority should probably be soothing tensions in England that had arisen during the regency (Gloucester, Cardinal Beaufort etc.)
 
Perhaps he would marry Joan of Navarre who in otl died and Charlotte of Savoy as his second wife..

Why Juana of Navarre and not one of her surviving sisters from OTL? Leonor was offered to Henry VI for a time, AFAIK. That said, there's no proof that Blanca would remain childless as OTL, and it would be fun if Leonor can produce her raft of kids for the French crown OTL - as well as perhaps giving them a claim to Navarre.
 
So,who will Henry the Universal Spider marry?Still Margaret of Anjou or someone else?I think it would have been far more useful if he married someone else.
It probably would be, but I can't help wondering what a power couple like these two could accomplish if they got along amazingly.

Would he still take up government personally in 1437? How bad is the situation by that point?

And his first priority should probably be soothing tensions in England that had arisen during the regency (Gloucester, Cardinal Beaufort etc.)
From what I read about the OTL Louis XI, he's more than capable of handling England. If anything, spider!Henry might take full control even earlier.
 
If Henry marries Eleanor of Navarre that means the sooner he has kids and children, it took a while for Margaret of Anjou, why not have Margaret marry the Habsburg Emperor instead..
 
It probably would be, but I can't help wondering what a power couple like these two could accomplish if they got along amazingly.


From what I read about the OTL Louis XI, he's more than capable of handling England. If anything, spider!Henry might take full control even earlier.
Doubt it.The match was extremely bad.There was no dowry to the deal and that England was supposed to cede Maine back to France.The Angevins' were also decidedly in the French camp.Henry will needed to marry someone that gives him either funds,lands or military aid.
 
Would he still take up government personally in 1437? How bad is the situation by that point?

And his first priority should probably be soothing tensions in England that had arisen during the regency (Gloucester, Cardinal Beaufort etc.)

It was VERY bad by then; Burgundy, whose alliance with the English was of almost inestimable value
to them(in that it split France)had gone back into the French fold in 1435. That same year Charles
VII re-entered Paris(which the English had previously held since 1420). It was now obvious that
the English were losing the war, which meant that in 1437 Henry would have HAD to have taken
personal command, whether he wanted to or not!
 
Well, if nothing changes before 1444 (and it blooming well should), Henry the Spider won't be stupid enough to give France the chance to reignite the war that Henry and Suffolk did in OTL.

Allowing one cackhanded raid to go off was the perfect opportunity for Charles VII, and directly lead to Formigny and Castillon. It was almost certainly only a matter of time by that stage, but that's not a reason to give Charles the perfect chance to make that time now.

However, I would expect changed before the Treaty of Tours. If Henry had Louis' gift of splitting coalitions in twain, disrupting unfriendly alliances, and general sowing discord amongst those who would oppose him, I would expect the great nobles of France to be happily feuding with each other. Moreover, if this Henry has a more successful reign, plus secure line of succession, the Mortimer descent of Richard Duke of York is likely a non-issue.

In contrast, imagine what the League of the Public Weal could have done against Henry VI, rather than the Universal Spider.
 
Top