Deleted member 1487
There was any number of assassination plots against Hitler, but what if Goering fell in one in 1939 before the invasion of Poland? What would that mean for Hitler and general 3rd Reich politics?
Someone more competent takes over the luffwaffe maybe and air war over Europe is tougher or a bigger yes man for Hitler moves up the Nazi food chain and the Germans still screw up.
The OP is the best man to answer the question, but it has several interesting effects.
1. Less crazy Hitler...he's afraid of being offed and it emboldens resistance. Hitler cannot just take control of army groups as quickly as OTL.
2. No miracle at Dunkirk, as Goering's replacement is simply not going to make the same call. This means possible British capitulation, though more likely it just delays Britain and makes them do worse in Africa (as trained men will have to be shipped home for defense, and Hitler will still probably go ahead with the BoB.)
3. Someone more sane might put a stop (or at least encourage stopping) the BoB when it was clear that it was not working. But, this is not a given.
4. PODs with weapons development, probably positive.
5. Crete still happens, but it is less bad because of PODs from Dunkirk. Fallshirmjaeger probably are relevant until the beginning of 1943.
The OP is the best man to answer the question, but it has several interesting effects.
1. Less crazy Hitler...he's afraid of being offed and it emboldens resistance. Hitler cannot just take control of army groups as quickly as OTL.
2. No miracle at Dunkirk, as Goering's replacement is simply not going to make the same call. This means possible British capitulation, though more likely it just delays Britain and makes them do worse in Africa (as trained men will have to be shipped home for defense, and Hitler will still probably go ahead with the BoB.)
3. Someone more sane might put a stop (or at least encourage stopping) the BoB when it was clear that it was not working. But, this is not a given.
4. PODs with weapons development, probably positive.
5. Crete still happens, but it is less bad because of PODs from Dunkirk. Fallshirmjaeger probably are relevant until the beginning of 1943.
Milch would kill the Ju288 before it even happened and probably not sabotage the Jumo 222; I doubt he'd tolerate the dive bombing He177 or Udet for that matter. He'd probably take down Messerschmitt as soon as possible too, so no Me210 fiasco. There might be other things like not requiring the Do217 to dive. Milch is going to have a lot of enemies though and won't be shielded by Goering (Raeder and a lot of career military men hated the civilian Milch).Pretty much this. Though I would emphasize point 4. Without Goering the Luftwaffe would be much better off. Certain aircraft would be built and put into service earlier and in larger numbers while other aircraft that ended up being wastes wouldn't be built or at least wouldn't be built at the detriment of the promising aircraft.
Also there would be one less person in Hitler's inner circle who would go along with every insane idea he had.
No, he would not have been good for the LW. He had no military standing for that role either. Speer left the RLM/LW alone when he was in charge of the economy and let Milch handle things; Milch was the best guy to handle production and development, maybe not the best commander option, but better than what was there IOTL. Hess was a useful fool, not particularly respected by anyone in the party and chose for his loyalty to Hitler and lack of ambition.the best person would have been Fritz Todt to fill all the roles Goering had, LW, economy, etc.
he was technically part of LW at one point? and a decorated pilot so not so farfetched to assume that role?
who else is there? Hess? thought he was uniformly considered crazy early on?
In what areas though? He'd boost production and pretty much follow OTL strategy up through France, but wouldn't overpromise on Dunkirk nor be all that sanguine on the BoB. I think Beppo Schmid wouldn't be the head of intelligence, which solves a lot of issues there, but am not sure who would replace him and do that much better of a job that was acceptable by Milch.Concur that Milch would be highly likely to get the position but I see him being a bit worried about how long he can keep it. Whereas HG had his bombastic delusions and boasts Milch could perhaps go too far in the opposite direction and be overly cautious.
I thought he and Raeder were pretty bitter enemies.Some positives
He is likely to try to mend fences with Raeder by giving the KM some aircraft of its own
Agreed. I'd add he wouldn't promote people based on combat performance, rather he'd likely do it on competence, so we don't get Galland or potentially Molders as inspectors or even Gruppen commanders.No LW field divisions, no HG Panzer Division
He is highly likely to strangle Sea Lion in the crib (which also helps him with Raeder) Instead you would see a long term air campaign designed to weaken the UK with a majority of sorties at night
I thought he and Raeder were pretty bitter enemies.
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So were Hitler and Stalin.
I would see Milch giving just enough aircraft to temporarily appease Raeder so the admiral is not leading the parade to have him sacked. If Milch at some point feels more secure in his position he will go back to denying the KM aircraft.
Didn't Bugsy Seigel consider doing in Goering & Goebbels in 1939?
There's thread on this site about it
https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=215282
I'm sure being Jewish didn't make him their demographic.Dunno about Goerring and Goebbels specifically, but Seigel was definitely an anti-Nazi before it was popular.
Probably not quite that good, but if they went to the Blitz right away, but focused on ports and such they'd suffer a lot less losses and do more damage.Without Göring's wild promises the BoB simply won't happen. Thatvsaves thousands of planes and hundreds of pilots for other campaigns. It might even be enough to give the Germans a level of aircraft superiority similar to your "Three Fish" TL, wiking.![]()
The OP is the best man to answer the question, but it has several interesting effects.
1. Less crazy Hitler...he's afraid of being offed and it emboldens resistance. Hitler cannot just take control of army groups as quickly as OTL.
2. No miracle at Dunkirk, as Goering's replacement is simply not going to make the same call. This means possible British capitulation, though more likely it just delays Britain and makes them do worse in Africa (as trained men will have to be shipped home for defense, and Hitler will still probably go ahead with the BoB.)
Probably not quite that good, but if they went to the Blitz right away, but focused on ports and such they'd suffer a lot less losses and do more damage.
This was basically what the pre-war wargaming for war with Britain returned as the most effective strategy and the one that the LW intelligence department was pushing before, during, and after the BoB. So its not like I came up with this, in fact I stumbled on to it during my research for a TL. They developed specialized night bombing forces pre-war and developed night bombing aids too:Wouldn't that require foresight though? There is no experience with a strategic air campaign yet, they don't know what works and what doesn't. Is there any precedent of the Luftwaffe looking into a night-only bombing campaign specifically? And wasn't the decision to bomb cities a political decision made by Hitler?