What If Gladitorial Contests were more Widespread?

I was just watching the quite graphic swords and sandals tv epic series - 'Sparticus - gods of the arena ' and just looking at the blood lust of the spectators during the gladitorial contests ( it's set in Capua ), I was just wondering what if these types of contests potentially to death outlived the Roman empire and spread beyond it and indeed have there been any similar contests common in other civilisations at that level?
Also if the audiences for them were made sit through a baseball, rugby, soccer, cricket, US football contest or any modern sport in a top class arena how would they react? - probably intensely bored!
Also this series isn't just graphic ( by US TV standards ) on gladitorial fighting, it also is quite good on lovemaking scenes including homosexuality and lesbianism and orgies, so an additional question - how liberal was the empire on these matters for ordinary citizens and slaves as well as the aristos and when Rome became christianised did what happened to these liberal practices, could they have lived side by side with Christianity?
 
That serries is about as histoircaly accurate as the Gummybears...

The Republic of the time of Spartacus was not liberal vs homosexuality, in civil society it was known but viewd as form of perversion, not somthing a proper roman did. In the army sodomy could lead to excecution if one was caught.
 
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I presume later in the Empire it became more liberal, certainly the likes of Nero had a fixation on Greece and they were certainly liberal re homosexuality!
 
Not sure if they would find football (either kind) boring. And it probably wouldn't have outlasted the empire - it might have been revived (Christian ideas might get in the way, probably would in fact), but gladiatorial contests were expensive.

As I recall from my reading, it was okay for a Roman (Roman citizen) to engage as the...um...dominant partner, but not okay for him to be the one receiving attention if you know what I mean.

Nero and Hadrian admiring Greece speaks more of them being - pardon my bluntness, everyone - "perverts" than Roman norms being tolerant/liberal.

But this is for men, I don't know about women.

As for surviving Christianity: I doubt it. Christianity at best has a much more narrow minded attitude on human sexuality - changing that early on would probably involve changing the religion.
 
As I recall from my reading, it was okay for a Roman (Roman citizen) to engage as the...um...dominant partner, but not okay for him to be the one receiving attention if you know what I mean.

In THEORY. That's sort of what is conceptually permissible. There's plenty of evidence homosexual contacts had similar amounts of diversity in the way they worked as they do now.

I know it's not directly related to the topic, but it's an important distinction. The social construction only exists in the collective understanding, the physical reality on the other hand may not really match the construction.

And even so, Second and Third century Roman Empire left us plenty of homoerotic or homosexually romantic literature, whereas the Christian era that followed was absolutely barren in that respect other than some closeted symbolism of the Youth Christ and St.Sebastian. That speaks of a much greater tolerance, even if it cannot compare to good countries today.
 
In THEORY. That's sort of what is conceptually permissible. There's plenty of evidence homosexual contacts had similar amounts of diversity in the way they worked as they do now.

I know it's not directly related to the topic, but it's an important distinction. The social construction only exists in the collective understanding, the physical reality on the other hand may not really match the construction.

And even so, Second and Third century Roman Empire left us plenty of homoerotic or homosexually romantic literature, whereas the Christian era that followed was absolutely barren in that respect other than some closeted symbolism of the Youth Christ and St.Sebastian. That speaks of a much greater tolerance, even if it cannot compare to good countries today.

Yeah. Even if it was mostly fiction rather than real relationships (not arguing that it was, just saying), that one could write about such things means there were people who were okay with reading about such things. Hardly a situation where the average Roman would find homosexuality outrageous.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if I'm remembering right, the Roman attitude was (supposedly) that a Roman should be "dominant" as a matter of manliness, not as a matter of morality.

Seems to have been something one might use against someone if one had nothing better to do, at most. Material for slander.
 
Just saw the full unedited version of the film 'Caligula' last night and it has to be the most pornographic mainstream film ever made, don't forget it starred O'Toole, Guildgood and Mirren! Was it in anyway a true reflection of life under Tiberius and subsequently 'Little Boots'?
 
Christianity and gladiatorial games would never coexist, it is against the Christian faith, which caused the death of those games
 

archaeogeek

Banned
Christianity and gladiatorial games would never coexist, it is against the Christian faith, which caused the death of those games

It took until the fall of the Ostrogothic kingdom to see the end of a lot of these things - gladiators, even if they were officially banned in the 400s, were one of those things that were still present.

Besides, there's nothing really inherent about christianity that it can't be changed or tossed aside.
 
I've been reading The Spartacus War by Barry Strauss in my spare time (it's a pretty good read IMO) and it got me thinking something along these lines...

Now in OTL following Spartacus' rebellion several new restrictions were placed on the gladiators (their placement relative to rome, the availability of weapons etc.). Now what if, Spartacus does a little better, he's still defeated in TTL but say he makes it to Sicily and sets up a short lived slave republic. IMO this would lead to even more restrictions on gladiators to ensure that something so potentially devastating as losing Sicily never happens again.

Perhaps in TTL Gladitorial contests become less about blood and more about sport? Iron weapons are substituted with wooden ones and all matches are done until submission instead of to death. I could see such a sport co-existing with Christianity much like boxing.
 
What Led to the Insanity Of The Empreors?

Even some of the early emprors were clearly insane - Tiberius, Caligula,Claudius and Nero.What caused this - Was it inbreeding? A case of all power corrupting? or a beyond even a Mugabesque scenario with syphilis or other std?
 
Lead poisoning is a popular theory...

Which is pretty easily debunked. Yes, their pipes and everything else were made of lead, but within a few months at most those pipes would have become lined with minerals and other sediments, which would have acted as an effective shield against the lead. See Hodge, A. Trevor (1992). Roman Aqueducts & Water Supply.

In the case of Caligula, I think the easiest explanation of his obvious insanity would be schizophrenia. For other emperors, like Nero and Eligabilus, it is harder to say. The extreme levels of stress that that Roman Emperors lived under probably contributed to mental breakdowns, and its was not as if they had shrinks or vacations.
 

archaeogeek

Banned
In the case of Caligula, I think the easiest explanation of his obvious insanity would be schizophrenia. For other emperors, like Nero and Eligabilus, it is harder to say. The extreme levels of stress that that Roman Emperors lived under probably contributed to mental breakdowns, and its was not as if they had shrinks or vacations.

You know, it's not like Nero and Eliogabalus had to be insane, period, just because it was the standards of the time. The former just seems to have had a pretty solid demonization job, but may have been a mild sociopath, while Eliogabalus was probably a transsexual.
 
Well MMA is basically no-holds barred gladiator combat without weapons. People cheering for blood to be spilt and all that. You can argue than watching two grown men beat eachother to a pulp has never gone away.
 
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