What if Germany refuses to accept the Oder-Neisse line as a condition for reunification?

Vietnam and Afghanistan are faraway lands. France and Britain are right next door. And France and Britain alone are more than a match fot reunified Germany military wise. Add to that US troops stationed inside Germany.

And sorry, Britain and France are not Putin's Russia, so there would be no chance for Germany.
Except that it wouldn't be a conventional war. The Germans would be using Guerilla tactics.
How do you keep to countries apart that want to come together?
You would need permanent occupation and patrolling of the border.
It would be extremely manpower intensive.
I doubt the allies would still consider it worthwhile after a few years.
Just like they didn't in Vietnam or Afghanistan.
Distance doesn't really matter for that.
 
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Because that worked so well in 1939?

Aligning with a Germany that want its eastern territories back means Poland aligns with the rest of the West faster than the speed of sound. The good news for Russia is that it might lead to NATO and the EC dissolving. The bad news is that if they are, they're replaced with new treaties where Poland and Czechoslovakia are included.
I think it would be less like 1939 and more like the current Russian-Chinese relationship.
 
I was going to tag the moderators with my next post. Suffice it to say that I have seen this poster keep reappeared by with his talk of the injustices of Oder-Neisse and imagining what if Germany did not recognize this border.
That is not me.
Don't be paranoid.
I have to be very skeptical about the plausibility of any Russian government, post-Soviet or otherwise, allying again with Germany to partitioning central Europe. Operation Barbarossa is remembered. This might especially be the case in the context of a geopolitical scenario where not just a broad sphere of Russian influence but the Russian state and economy itself are collapsing.
Why are you always going to the extreme.
The late 1930s were very unique circumstances. Something like that wouldn't repeat.
I would imagine such a relationship more similar to the current chinese-russian one.
Why? What could Germany provide Russia that would not be wiped out by losses? Ignoring the spectre of another German attack on Russia, if these two states are again involved in a project to partition the weaker and smaller states between their eastern borders I doubt Moscow will get integrated into the world economy.
Such a "project" wouldn't be shouted out to the public.
Economically the two countries could supplement each other pretty well.
Germany would only really need access to the world market for resources, which could be provided by Russia instead.
Russia would get German industrial products as payment for these.
Together these two countries could be almost autarkic.
Anything is open now.



I actually did not misunderstand you. As Russia has been demonstrating, a refusal to recognize the integrity of an interstate border can very easily be the first stage of a project of trying to revise the border. In the case of the German-Polish border, particularly charged because of the Second World War and the psychic legacy of the Nazis, this non-recognition of the established Polish border would be taken as the first stage of a German project to revise its border with Poland against Polish wishes.




The Kurils are distant and remote. They are not, say, territories where millions of people live, and have not seen (say) horrific atrocities committed against local populations by invaders. Germany, in this case, will be actively laying claim to territories under Polish control for almost two generations, with large and well-established Polish populations. The difference is huge and, frankly, obvious.
We still haven't seen a war between Japan and Russia over them. Even though the lower stakes would actually make it less problematic for Japan to try to retake them.
Not a formality at all. Even OTL, most of the western European allies of West Germany were initially skeptical about German reunification, and had to be persuaded to support it by assurances that a reunified Germany would not be revisionist. In this case, Germany would actually be explicitly establishing itself as revisionist, again. No one would be under any illusions that the refusal to recognize the post-1945 German-Polish border was anything but the first stage in a new campaign against Poland, this one perhaps less rational than the earlier ones since there would be scarcely any ethnic Germans on the Polish side.
Not necessarily.
This very idea is ridiculous. Is an essentially bourgeois democratic Germany, one where militarism has been discredited and German society largely depoliticized, actually going to fight a costly war with potentially hundreds of thousands or millions of dead? I would note that Germany, unlike either Vietnam or Afghanistan, would not only have any nearby supportive neighbours, it would be hard-pressed to find any allies at all. What would be the point of this war, more, outside of a desire to keep a casus belli for another war with Poland, less than a lifetime after the previous war that ended up shattering Germany?

The Germany that we know would simply not be interested in this. You are arguing that the Germans would be willing to blow up everything in exchange for retaining a right to claim some Polish territories with an increasingly distant German past. This is not plausible, especially not given the post-1945 history of our Germanies which moved by the 1970s towards a FRG acceptance of the current frontier with the only asterick being that a final settlement of Germany was required for a final settlement of the eastern border.

Now, I can imagine scenarios where Germany evolved differently. Maybe, with a different political settlement, German irredentism was legitimized. I can imagine the Soviets supporting at least the initial stages as a way to break up the Western alliance system. Even this, though, would require Germany to be very different, to be a society where imperialism and militarism and revanchism were OK.
That is assuming the allies would even intervene to that extent, which I am still doubtful off.
But similar things were said before the World Wars.
People can adapt rapidly.
 
In the specific case of the OP of this thread he was a 4th Generation sockpuppet.
This sounds either like something a courtesan for Charles II of Spain would say to mention his incestuous heritage while keeping his head...
*or*...
to make the incestuous heritage of Charles II of Spain look genetically diverse by comparison.

That is an interesting idea, but by at least some metrics East Germany could be described as actually more liberal than West Germany, perhaps because it drew on pre-war German radical traditions. The legal environment for queer people was more supportive, for instance.

A song from Gilbert and Sullivan comes to mind...and for those unfamiliar think 'Scientist Salerian' from Mass Effect 2...

I am the very model of East German Intellectual,
I've information of all kinds from national to personal,
I know the Party Chairmen's names, and seek borders historical,
From Nanzig on to Memel too, in order categorical;

I'm very well acquainted, too, with systems anti- capital,
I understand equations, too - mathematic and political,
About Marxist economics I'm teeming with facts to give to you,
Hmmm... lot o' news, ready to spew... Aha!
With many cheerful facts about why our system's best to choose...

I'm very good at speaking plainly and crediting "we" or "us",
I know the proper scientific names of beings animalculous:
In short, in matters economic, historic, and political,
I am the very model of East German intellectual.
 
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