What if Germany refuses to accept the Oder-Neisse line as a condition for reunification?

[Shanhouse]

In many ways, East Germany served a valuable purpose. It enabled West Germany to not recognize Stalin’s theft of the eastern lands without making actually aggressive claims on Poland. (Königsberg was the worst loss, and Russia stole that). I doubt that reunification was worth giving up those territories forever. Imagine America without Washington DC, that’s Germany without Königsberg.
What if West Germany said that they will not accept the Oder-Neisse line, but they will also not make any attempts to reclaim the lost land militarily?

 

[Ramontxo]

Then they don't get reunited. As it was several Western Europe leaders were quite apprehensive. A German airing nationalistic complaints is going to provoke very unfortunate (at least for them) reactions

 

[Shanhouse]

Then they don't get reunited. As it was several Western Europe leaders were quite apprehensive. A German airing nationalistic complaints is going to provoke very unfortunate (at least for them) reactions

How would Spain without Barcelona and Valencia make you feel? I really question if reunification was worth giving up the most important territories forever.

 

[Clandango]

In many ways, East Germany served a valuable purpose. It enabled West Germany to not recognize Stalin’s theft of the eastern lands without making actually aggressive claims on Poland. (Königsberg was the worst loss, and Russia stole that). I doubt that reunification was worth giving up those territories forever. Imagine America without Washington DC, that’s Germany without Königsberg.
What if West Germany said that they will not accept the Oder-Neisse line, but they will also not make any attempts to reclaim the lost land militarily?

Could you show a map referring to what you are meaning in specific? Is it just the Silesian lands? Or would you be going with the route many apparently were going for in claiming the German borders from before WWII or WWI?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oder–Neisse_line#West_Germany

 

[Shanhouse]

Could you show a map referring to what you are meaning in specific? Is it just the Silesian lands? Or would you be going with the route many apparently were going for in claiming the German borders from before WWII or WWI?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oder–Neisse_line#West_Germany

East Germany’s existence meant West Germany could recognize its Eastern border (with East Germany) without recognizing the Oder-Neisse line.

 

[Simreeve]

Wasn't the "Oder-Neisse line" originally supposed to refer to a different river Neisse, further south, which would have left Germany with roughly the north-western quarter of Lower Silesia? I seem to remember reading this somewhere, lonng ago, and looking at maps of Silesia recently while preparing my planned timeline I've seen where that latter river is...

 

[Nephi]

How would Spain without Barcelona and Valencia make you feel? I really question if reunification was worth giving up the most important territories forever.

Like celebrating because that would mean Catalonia and Valencia were now free from Spanish occupation, especially the latter.

 

[Shanhouse]

Wasn't the "Oder-Neisse line" originally supposed to refer to a different river Neisse, further south, which would have left Germany with roughly the north-western quarter of Lower Silesia? I seem to remember reading this somewhere, lonng ago, and looking at maps of Silesia recently while preparing my planned timeline I've seen where that latter river is...

Yes, Germany was supposed to keep Silesia up to the Eastern Neisse. Stalin got greedy and ruined the lives of innocent German civilians to feed his greed for more land, never mind the fact that the USSR was already the biggest country on the face of the earth.

Like celebrating because that would mean Catalonia and Valencia were now free from Spanish occupation, especially the latter.

Okay, how would you feel if Spain lost Seville and all Spaniards were ethnically cleansed from the region, then?

 

[naraic]

I think you have to recognise that there weren't Germans in lost territories anymore.

Personally I think Germany should have accepted the border and condemned Russia and Poland (and others as appropiate) for ethnic cleansing.

 

[HelloThere]

If Germany doesn't accept the Oder-Neisse, there's no reunification. Simple as that. The Soviet Union will be pretty happy with a revanchist German government, since Poland will feel the need to keep Soviet troops as a defense against Germany (remember, Soviet troops withdrew the moment Germany had formally recognized Oder-Neisse without conditions).

 

[Shanhouse]

I think you have to recognise that there weren't Germans in lost territories anymore.

Personally I think Germany should have accepted the border and condemned Russia and Poland (and others as appropiate) for ethnic cleansing.

Agreed. Reparations should also have been considered.

If Germany doesn't accept the Oder-Neisse, there's no reunification. Simple as that. The Soviet Union will be pretty happy with a revanchist German government, since Poland will feel the need to keep Soviet troops as a defense against Germany (remember, Soviet troops withdrew the moment Germany had formally recognized Oder-Neisse without conditions).

Germany could have demanded an apology and/or reparations in exchange for accepting it. That would have been reasonable.

 

[HelloThere]

Germany could have demanded an apology and/or reparations in exchange for accepting it. That would have been reasonable.

Then Poland would have demanded reparations, which would have been so big that Germany would go broke just thinking about them. Sounds better to accept the territorial loss which doesn't affect Germany's economic potential and move on, without making the whole world hate you.

 

[Shanhouse]

Then Poland would have demanded reparations, which would have been so big that Germany would go broke just thinking about them. Sounds better to accept the territorial loss which doesn't affect Germany's economic potential and move on, without making the whole world hate you.

Königsberg was the most important historic city in Germany. Germany should have demanded reparations from Russia, not Poland

 

[TheMolePeople]

I really don't get how you make Königsberg "the most important historic city in Germany". Sure, it was a cultural, academic, and administrative center for quite some time, a highly symbolic city for Prussia and maybe Germany as a whole, but not the most important one, especially not after 1871 or 1918, and not necessarily the one that perception of ex-German territories in the postwar was solely trained upon. I think that focus is a bit misguided here.

 

[boredviewer1234]

In many ways, East Germany served a valuable purpose. It enabled West Germany to not recognize Stalin’s theft of the eastern lands without making actually aggressive claims on Poland. (Königsberg was the worst loss, and Russia stole that). I doubt that reunification was worth giving up those territories forever. Imagine America without Washington DC, that’s Germany without Königsberg.
What if West Germany said that they will not accept the Oder-Neisse line, but they will also not make any attempts to reclaim the lost land militarily?

Hmmm, maybe Russia in response uses it to try and join NATO in some form?

Germanies refusal to accept the loss of old German lands was expected after reunification, though the form of it would be unknown.

I suspect it would lead to a new political crisis across Europe at time as news of this occurs, that said once the call is made I would expect plenty of other Europeans to begin looking back at their lost lands.

 

[Shanhouse]

I really don't get how you make Königsberg "the most important historic city in Germany". Sure, it was a cultural, academic, and administrative center for quite some time, a highly symbolic city for Prussia and maybe Germany as a whole, but not the most important one, especially not after 1871 or 1918, and not necessarily the one that perception of ex-German territories in the postwar was solely trained upon. I think that focus is a bit misguided here.

Because it was the birthplace of Prussia. It would be like the US losing Washington DC.

 

[Ramontxo]

Königsberg was the most important historic city in Germany. Germany should have demanded reparations from Russia, not Poland

This so mad that it doesn't merit an answer. Enjoy yourself here

 

[Shanhouse]

This so mad that it doesn't merit an answer. Enjoy yourself here

Huh?

 

[DougM]

If we are talking birth place… Washington DC is not a good comparison. maybe Philadelphia?

 

[Drizzt]

If Germany doesn't accept the Oder-Neisse, there's no reunification. Simple as that.

Says who? As you wrote yourself the Soviets would have welcomed a much more strained German-Polish relationship, even if they'd not be invited to stay. Would Britain or France go to war to prevent it? If not, they don't get a vote. It's not like they have any much economic levers to play against the EECs ATM. And France knows that trying and failing might kill the Euro. The US of A wouldn't care enough. So as long as the USSR still ok's unification and I can't see why they would not, there is no one else who can veto it.