What if Germany had become conventionally Fascist?

What if, instead of Nazism, a more Mussolini-like Fascist party took power in Germany? Obviously, they wouldn't have the racial policies and ideas of the Nazis, but what else do you think would change?
 
A less racist German fascism (i.e. not Nazism) could mobilise Slavs against communism far better than the Germanic supremacist Nazis did. It would give some credence to the idea of Germany leading a crusade against global (Judeo)-Bolshevism.

Nazism is Fascism.

A form of it. Like how Maoism is communism, but a Maoist Soviet Union will be much different than the OTL Soviet Union.
 

BigBlueBox

Banned
I think the German National People's Party (DNVP) could work as a possible fascist but not Nazi party. But the party was monarchist, so they likely would have tried to reinstate the Kaiser.
 
I think the German National People's Party (DNVP) could work as a possible fascist but not Nazi party. But the party was monarchist, so they likely would have tried to reinstate the Kaiser.
Yes but a restored monarchy under the DNVP would have been entirely toothless.
Come to think of it, Hugenburg's Germany sounds like a great TL yet to be written.
 
What if, instead of Nazism, a more Mussolini-like Fascist party took power in Germany? Obviously, they wouldn't have the racial policies and ideas of the Nazis, but what else do you think would change?
Some more possible differences:
1. Rather than being ambivalent or outright hostile to Christianity like the Nazis, the German Fascists would encourage it.
2. The German monarchy is probably back, albeit with little to no power.
3. A more capitalist/corporatist economic policy not the socialist economics we got from out TL's Nazis.
4. Jewish policy is less gas chambers and more Jim Crow plus emigration being heavily encouraged.
5. Pan Germanism and destroying the Soviet Union is the foreign policy goal of Germany, not the destruction of the western allies and the complete annihilation of Slavic peoples.
In fact, this fascist Germany will receive much more goodwill from the rest of the world than the Nazis. Britain and France may even ally with Germany when they invade the USSR. Poland to is a possible ally if the Danzig situation can be resolved peacefully.
 
Some more possible differences:
1. Rather than being ambivalent or outright hostile to Christianity like the Nazis, the German Fascists would encourage it.
2. The German monarchy is probably back, albeit with little to no power.
3. A more capitalist/corporatist economic policy not the socialist economics we got from out TL's Nazis.
4. Jewish policy is less gas chambers and more Jim Crow plus emigration being heavily encouraged.
5. Pan Germanism and destroying the Soviet Union is the foreign policy goal of Germany, not the destruction of the western allies and the complete annihilation of Slavic peoples.
In fact, this fascist Germany will receive much more goodwill from the rest of the world than the Nazis. Britain and France may even ally with Germany when they invade the USSR. Poland to is a possible ally if the Danzig situation can be resolved peacefully.


I don't think necessarily they would ally with Germany straight away (although I do imagine Fascism would be much more popular and accepted as a legit form of government here than in our timeline, with Fascist parties in countries like the UK and the United States being more powerful and influential here than in OTL) since Germany would still be breaking the Treaty of Versailles by building its military forces back up and (possibly) reclaiming lost territory. That being said, I can see relations with Fascist Italy being MUCH more stable here than in OTL, and with Francoist Spain also if he still wins the Spanish Civil War here.
 
I don't think necessarily they would ally with Germany straight away (although I do imagine Fascism would be much more popular and accepted as a legit form of government here than in our timeline, with Fascist parties in countries like the UK and the United States being more powerful and influential here than in OTL) since Germany would still be breaking the Treaty of Versailles by building its military forces back up and (possibly) reclaiming lost territory. That being said, I can see relations with Fascist Italy being MUCH more stable here than in OTL, and with Francoist Spain also if he still wins the Spanish Civil War here.

Spain having a Civil War means Spain is useless until the early-mid 40s. Best the planned coup goes off without a hitch, and I guess have Falangism rise to the top somehow from there.

United States wouldn't have a fascist party, just a greater fascist undercurrent. Fascism is still an un-American and foreign idea like socialism and communism, not that that would prevent Americans from borrowing 99% of it and making it their own. And they'd have something better than the Silver Legion which most Americans saw for the stupidity it was.
 
Honestly, depending on the state of the Soviet Union and Communism more generally, fascism remains a prominent ideology that likely gets a bit to somewhat more democratized over time, while the democracies take on some more muted fascist elements at times.

Italy and Japan are the little guys in comparison to the power and influence of Germany and a "Warsaw Pact." And assuming the same/similar Polish leadership, you've got a starting Polish/Italian/German Axis and you get much of Eastern Europe by simply offering freedom and protection from Stalin.

Speaking of Japan, a Fascist Germany likely stays aligned to Chiang's China to keep the pressure on the Asian front of the Soviet Union. Japan and the Soviets probably get forced into a marriage of convenience here where the Soviets supply raw materials in exchange for airplanes and holding dysfunctional China down to secure its Asian border.
 
Last edited:
Handing control over the economy to massive private corporations is socialist...?

It is when those corporations are being handled by the government (in which their leadership has representation) for the (alleged) benefit of society as a whole. Corpritisim is the Enlightened Despotism of economic policies: the elites acting on behalf of the poor uneducated masses "for their own good"
 

longsword14

Banned
Just like banning trade unions.
The Nazi position is interesting. It has shades of what could pass as "socialism", which in itself is poorly defined.
1. It allows crony capitalism, which comes along with heavy governmental interference.
2. Unions themselves were not what you would call "free" in communist countries either (one party, one everything). In Nazi perspective all bodies must be under the Party's umbrella.
3. Party sponsored programs, utilities etc.
Far away from what you would call typical capitalist. In centralisation, meddling and spending they are far closer to "socialism".
 
It is when those corporations are being handled by the government (in which their leadership has representation) for the (alleged) benefit of society as a whole. Corpritisim is the Enlightened Despotism of economic policies: the elites acting on behalf of the poor uneducated masses "for their own good"
So literally the opposite of socialism? Sounds very anti-worker power to me...
 
Nazism is Fascism.
Mussolini would disagree. The key element to Nazism is Anti Semitism. This is not inherent to Italian Fascism, or its most successful foreign imitator, Peronism. As some posters have already said Fascism would be somewhat better positioned to secure collaborationist allies and supporters in eastern Europe, and would waste less time on killing people who were patriotic Germans of the wrong race or .religion. Still not a nice place to live, but not whack-job suicidal. Of course that might mean it survived much much longer than crazy Adolf
 
Top