What if Frederik III dies before Christian IV?

Valdemar II

Banned
Jareds "LRAG" made me think, WI if Frederik III dies before Christian IV, let say he dies in the war with Sweden, when Christian the Chosen Prince dies shortly after Christian IV has a problem; no heir. He still have a number of illegitime and semi-legitime children, wouldhe try to make them legitim or would he give up and let his "treacherous" nephew Friedrich of Gottorp become the primary candidate to the throne?

While I lean toward the first, I think he would fail, and Friedrich would likely end up the next King (likely as Frederik III), through the Sönderburg lines would also be potential competors. How will this affect Denmark and the relationship with Sweden, Gottorp was a de facto Swedish vassal, but with the inherience of the Danish throne it wouldn't be anymore. But while Friedrich are alive we will likely see a continued friendship between the two states, and there will likely go a few decades for the relationship to turn sour after Friedrichs death. Making Denmark avoid the disasterous wars in 1657-1660.
 
I am not certain that any Danish king would humbly
accept the losses in the peace 1645, you lost a lot
of land. Besides in 1657 Karl X is still busy in Poland, that
was the main reason you struck when you did. You saw
a strategic opportunity and took it. Who would have even
suspected that the Swedish army would come marching
through Germany and entering Jylland from the south.

Hälsning från Malmö!
 

Valdemar II

Banned
I am not certain that any Danish king would humbly
accept the losses in the peace 1645, you lost a lot
of land. Besides in 1657 Karl X is still busy in Poland, that
was the main reason you struck when you did. You saw
a strategic opportunity and took it. Who would have even
suspected that the Swedish army would come marching
through Germany and entering Jylland from the south.

Hälsning från Malmö!

Yes Denmark lost a lot of land, but the most important territorium lost in the war Halland would have been regained in 1675, while the Norvegian loses was secondary, and the loses of Ösel and Gotland was acceptable.

Hilsener fra København
 
I strongly suspect that Karl X after finishing with
Poland one way or the other had eyed Skåne and
Blekinge thinking that crushing Danmark once and for all.
after all he is known as the "acquirer" here and the toll
from Öresund is a strong incentive but who knows?
 

Valdemar II

Banned
I strongly suspect that Karl X after finishing with
Poland one way or the other had eyed Skåne and
Blekinge thinking that crushing Danmark once and for all.
after all he is known as the "acquirer" here and the toll
from Öresund is a strong incentive but who knows?

Likely, but he would have been in a lot worse position to do so, Friedrich wouldn't have made the humiliating and power limiting compromise with the Danish nobles which Frederik was forced to and he would have a stronger position in Schleswig-Holstein, which means the he's economical better of and as result of that has a bigger army. Beside there was only a short window in the winters of 1658-60 where Karl could march over Storebælt. So fundamental we would see Denmark in a much stronger position versus Sweden, beside there's also the fact that Friedrich are Karls father-in
-law (through this may be butterflied away), which may keep Karl somewhat in check.
 
Perhaps but the big question is will Karl leave Skåne alone?
And if there is a war who will the naval powers support?
The Dutch and the British did not like the fact that all the inlets
to Östersjön was owned by the same power, furthermore would
Karl XI really simply give Halland back in 1675? Suppose that
the peace lasts which I doubt since the long story of wars between
the 2 Skandinavian powers, would there be a great Northern war?
Perhaps only with Poland and Russia as allies which would strengthen
Karl XIIs position considerably since it was only Danmark that had a
first class navy among the allies.
By the way do you have as much snow in Köbenhavn as we have
here in Malmö?
 
Gottorp was a de facto Swedish vassal, but with the inherience of the Danish throne it wouldn't be anymore. But while Friedrich are alive we will likely see a continued friendship between the two states, and there will likely go a few decades for the relationship to turn sour after Friedrichs death. Making Denmark avoid the disasterous wars in 1657-1660.

Becoming King of Denmark would certainly change the perception of Friedrich as to his place among nations. Certainly not to remain in the back-track of Sweden and that would make for war at a point.
And as an aside to your Aabenraa thread I don't see the Ritterschaft deviate from the 1460 Ribe declaration - why should they give up their virtual independence?

Friedrich would most probably face the trails as any OTL Danish King!
 

Valdemar II

Banned
Becoming King of Denmark would certainly change the perception of Friedrich as to his place among nations. Certainly not to remain in the back-track of Sweden and that would make for war at a point.
And as an aside to your Aabenraa thread I don't see the Ritterschaft deviate from the 1460 Ribe declaration - why should they give up their virtual independence?

Friedrich would most probably face the trails as any OTL Danish King!

His position would be stronger In Schleswig-Holstein would be better, because he would control most of it, in OTL the Gottorps was a continued problem for the Oldenburgs, not only because it gave the Swedish a extra front, but also because the chaos of the Gottorps enclaves and codominance areas, made centralisation and limiting the Ritterschaft power impossible. Friedrich and his descendants will control the entire S-H for a century more than the Oldenburgs did, which will make it easier for them to limit the Ritterschafts and centralise the duchies.
 
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