Hello all, Le Pistolet here!
I'm new to these parts, but have been a long time reader of some of the brilliant stuff you guys come up with. I have been gathering a lot of inspiration from your threads and have finally started up with my own, based off what would happen if France won the Franco-Prussian War. The POD is a French victory at the Battle of Wissembourg, and then a series of consecutive victories which allow them to push into Germany and win.
The general path I forsee is basically a switch between German and French fortunes. Prussia/Germany will become very Republican, whilst France will become more and more autocratic under the Second Empire. Eventually they will branch out more and more and come into conflict with Britain. Some spark here will cause a Anglo-Prussian alliance against France, similar to WWI, but with France as your bad guys.
France will then lose this war, due to the might of the British Empire, and maybe due to the US getting involved too. They will then spiral into depression after losing all their economic assets, such as their Empire, and the acquired Rhineland. This will then lead to the rise of a extreme right who want revenge. Cue WWII with a French style Hitler.
After this I don't know what would happen, any ideas?
For now, I have just worked out the first year. This is my first timeline and I have tried to be as detailed as possible to make it interesting, but I realise that things may be a little unrealistic as I don't really have much knowledge of how warfare at the time was conducted. I don't see this as hugely important though, as the gist of it is still the same.
I do need some help on what we think the agreements in the Treaty of Berlin should be. Obviously the fragmentation of Germany and annexation of parts to France/Austria and Denmark, but is there anything else? This is probably the most important thing in terms of future consequences down the line.
Anyway, here goes! Thanks in advance for reading, and any comments would be hugely welcome!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1870
Early August
• On the 1st August 1870 Napoleon III falls seriously ill and is forced to retire from the campaign against the Prussian armies. He returns to Paris and names Marshal MacMahon as the supreme commander of the French armies.
• Utilising his supreme command, MacMahon reacts to the possibility of a potential Prussian attack at Wissembourg and repositions his divisions close to the town on the evening of the 3rd of August.
• On the 4th August, the expected attack came, and the German 3rd Army encountered a well defended French position, aided by the range of their Chassepot rifles.
o The Prussian army, unable to make any significant headway against the strong French position, fall back and occupy the town of Wissembourg.
• The battle affirmed MacMahon’s fears of the strength of the Prussian army, and reinforcements were brought to the fore right away. The hope was to cut off the Prussian reinforcements and crush the resistance in the town.
• On the 6th August, French reinforcements arrived and began to bombard the town of Wissembourg. Although the Prussians brought in reserves, they were outflanked by newly arriving French divisions, and soon the town became cut off. Despite a valiant defence by the Prussian army, and intense street fighting throughout the day and the night of the battle, the town finally fell back into French hands, and was considered a solid French victory.
o The French army’s morale was significantly boosted, for they had thwarted the enemy’s first forays into their country.
o Conversely, morale dropped in the Prussian ranks as they had been rebuffed by a strong defensive opponent, and had failed to make any headway.
• MacMahon, eager to capitalise on the victory at the Battle of Wissembourg, orders his men across the border and into Germany. His hope is to liberate the Rhineland, and Prussia’s German allies, before taking on the behemoth itself. He also hopes to win Austrian support and aid in his war, for they have not yet chosen to intervene, despite initial French hopes to the contrary.
Mid August
• After the breakout at Wissembourg, French armies head northwards to Frankfurt and southwards to Stuttgart. Other armies further north aim for Cologne, Essen and Dusseldorf, hoping to choke the Prussian economic heartland, and protect the more Northern French borders from Prussian invasion by a lightening attack.
• Bolstered by their victories up and down the French borders against the green Prussian recruits, the French army win battle after battle, pushing the Prussian forces back and back.
• On the 10th August, the Battle of Sindelfingen (near Stuttgart) is a crushing French victory. The Prussian forces are forced to retreat to Stuttgart, and the Siege of Stuttgart begins in earnest on the 11th August. It will continue for three weeks.
Late August
• On the 25th August, after several battles such as the Battle of Heidleberg, the Battle of Eberstadt and the brief Siege of Mainz, the Siege of Frankfurt begins. This siege is the longest siege of the campaign, and will conclude in mid-November. The siege also sees the biggest loss of German civilian life throughout the entire course of the war.
• The Austro-Hungarian Empire, inspired by the French victories and seeing troops besieging Frankfurt, decide to take their revenge on Prussia and declare war on the 29th August. This declaration of war takes Europe by surprise, and seems to be a complete change of heart for Austria. The Prussians are severely underprepared to fight two military giants, and morale reaches a new low.
Early September
• Stuttgart becomes the first major city to fall to the French armies on the 2nd September. The French troops move on from Stuttgart to Augsburg, hoping to meet up with Austro-Hungarian troops there.
• The French army start the Siege of Cologne on 9th September.
Mid September
• After meeting little German resistance in the southern states, and after several resounding victories in what turn out to be little more than skirmishes, the Austro-Hungarian armies reach the walls of Munich by 14th September. The Siege of Munich only lasts little over two weeks before the citizens surrender.
• The Siege of Essen begins on the 17th September. It sees determined German resistance, but ultimately falls due to the sheer weight of numbers France pours into the city.
• On the 19th September, French forces win an outstanding victory in the Battle of Ulm, capturing thousands of Prussian soldiers. They also succeed in capturing the city two days later with little resistance. It seems that at least in southern Germany, the enemy are quickly becoming disheartened.
Late September
• On the 23rd September, French and Austrian forces begin the Siege of Augsburg. The first day sees enormous amounts of artillery concentrated on the city in an awesome display of firepower and dominance.
o A previously unknown German composer, and inhabitant, Adrienne Blume, writes a piece based off what he experienced that night, called Donnernacht, or Thunder Night.
• On the 29th September, after a day of door to door fighting in the city, Munich falls to the Austrian soldiers. These troops are moved up to aid at Augsburg.
October
• General MacMahon launches his famous Offensive d’Octobre (October Offensive). With the permission and blessing of Napoleon III he sends a rallying call across France for new troops to bolster their ranks and finally put an end to the Prussian menace.
• During the offensive, the entire Rhineland begins to fall.
o The Siege of Dusseldorf ends a month after it began, on the 9th October
o Despite stiff resistance Essen eventually surrenders and falls into French hands on the 27th October.
• In the South and West, Franco-Austrian or Austrian forces take city after city too, experiencing far less resistance than in the East.
o Nuremburg falls on the 18th October after the very brief two week Siege of Nuremburg
o After the Siege of Dresden, the city is captured by an Austrian army on the 24th October.
November
• Liepzig falls into Austrian hands on the 7th November. Wilhelm I becomes increasingly worried that the Franco-Austrian forces will reach be completely victorious before Christmas.
• In the North, bolstered by the events, and also eager for revenge, Denmark declare war out of nowhere against Prussia on the 10th November.
• In a rapid, evidently premeditated attack, Danish forces begin the Siege of Hamburg on the 12th November.
• On the 16th November, the Siege of Frankfurt finally comes to an end as the citizens surrender themselves to the French troops due to complete starvation. Reports come out about the conditions the Germans were subjected to during the siege, and appal Europe. There is much outcry from more liberal press in France, but it is mostly ignored.
• The Franco-Austrian and Danish alliance comes under the name of the Western Coalition. Supreme commanders meet in Essen to discuss the future of the war.
o A photograph taken here will become famous throughout the ages, and will become synonymous with MacMahon, appearing in every future historical publication on him.
• Western Coaliton forces finally all meet at the Battle of Magdeburg on the 29th November , where they resoundingly defeat what appears to be the last surviving vestiges of Prussian resistance.
• Reports come out of Berlin of an uprising against Wilhelm I. Protestors take to the streets in a violent uproar, attacking garrisoned soldiers and campaigning for an end to the war before it is too late. Wilhelm feels pressured, but is persuaded by Bismarck not to give in. Instead the riot is suppressed violently, and reports state that at least one hundred Berliners are killed in the street skirmishes, but it could have been many, many more.
December
• Western Coalition forces make it finally to Berlin by the 9th December. Plans for the German surrender are drawn up whilst artillery is brought into place to subject Berlin to a horrific bombardment. MacMahon hopes not to have to shell or attack the city, and hopes that the outcries of the Berliners will bring Wilhelm I to the negotiating table.
o As Napoleon III is feeling much better, he is called for from Paris, and begins his journey Eastward for the negotiations.
• On the night of the 9th December, riots break out all over Berlin and last for three days. MacMahon refuses to bombard the city for fear of killing too many citizens who are actually aiding him. Instead, they sit and wait and watch Berlin in flames.
• On the 13th December, Wilhelm I and Otto von Bismarck make their way to Sanssouci Palaces in Potsdam to meet with the negotiators.
• On the 16th December, after Napoleon III’s arrival and several days of hard negotiations, the Treaty of Berlin is declared, and the Western Coalition are officially victorious in what becomes known as the Prussian War.
I'm new to these parts, but have been a long time reader of some of the brilliant stuff you guys come up with. I have been gathering a lot of inspiration from your threads and have finally started up with my own, based off what would happen if France won the Franco-Prussian War. The POD is a French victory at the Battle of Wissembourg, and then a series of consecutive victories which allow them to push into Germany and win.
The general path I forsee is basically a switch between German and French fortunes. Prussia/Germany will become very Republican, whilst France will become more and more autocratic under the Second Empire. Eventually they will branch out more and more and come into conflict with Britain. Some spark here will cause a Anglo-Prussian alliance against France, similar to WWI, but with France as your bad guys.
France will then lose this war, due to the might of the British Empire, and maybe due to the US getting involved too. They will then spiral into depression after losing all their economic assets, such as their Empire, and the acquired Rhineland. This will then lead to the rise of a extreme right who want revenge. Cue WWII with a French style Hitler.
After this I don't know what would happen, any ideas?
For now, I have just worked out the first year. This is my first timeline and I have tried to be as detailed as possible to make it interesting, but I realise that things may be a little unrealistic as I don't really have much knowledge of how warfare at the time was conducted. I don't see this as hugely important though, as the gist of it is still the same.
I do need some help on what we think the agreements in the Treaty of Berlin should be. Obviously the fragmentation of Germany and annexation of parts to France/Austria and Denmark, but is there anything else? This is probably the most important thing in terms of future consequences down the line.
Anyway, here goes! Thanks in advance for reading, and any comments would be hugely welcome!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1870
Early August
• On the 1st August 1870 Napoleon III falls seriously ill and is forced to retire from the campaign against the Prussian armies. He returns to Paris and names Marshal MacMahon as the supreme commander of the French armies.
• Utilising his supreme command, MacMahon reacts to the possibility of a potential Prussian attack at Wissembourg and repositions his divisions close to the town on the evening of the 3rd of August.
• On the 4th August, the expected attack came, and the German 3rd Army encountered a well defended French position, aided by the range of their Chassepot rifles.
o The Prussian army, unable to make any significant headway against the strong French position, fall back and occupy the town of Wissembourg.
• The battle affirmed MacMahon’s fears of the strength of the Prussian army, and reinforcements were brought to the fore right away. The hope was to cut off the Prussian reinforcements and crush the resistance in the town.
• On the 6th August, French reinforcements arrived and began to bombard the town of Wissembourg. Although the Prussians brought in reserves, they were outflanked by newly arriving French divisions, and soon the town became cut off. Despite a valiant defence by the Prussian army, and intense street fighting throughout the day and the night of the battle, the town finally fell back into French hands, and was considered a solid French victory.
o The French army’s morale was significantly boosted, for they had thwarted the enemy’s first forays into their country.
o Conversely, morale dropped in the Prussian ranks as they had been rebuffed by a strong defensive opponent, and had failed to make any headway.
• MacMahon, eager to capitalise on the victory at the Battle of Wissembourg, orders his men across the border and into Germany. His hope is to liberate the Rhineland, and Prussia’s German allies, before taking on the behemoth itself. He also hopes to win Austrian support and aid in his war, for they have not yet chosen to intervene, despite initial French hopes to the contrary.
Mid August
• After the breakout at Wissembourg, French armies head northwards to Frankfurt and southwards to Stuttgart. Other armies further north aim for Cologne, Essen and Dusseldorf, hoping to choke the Prussian economic heartland, and protect the more Northern French borders from Prussian invasion by a lightening attack.
• Bolstered by their victories up and down the French borders against the green Prussian recruits, the French army win battle after battle, pushing the Prussian forces back and back.
• On the 10th August, the Battle of Sindelfingen (near Stuttgart) is a crushing French victory. The Prussian forces are forced to retreat to Stuttgart, and the Siege of Stuttgart begins in earnest on the 11th August. It will continue for three weeks.
Late August
• On the 25th August, after several battles such as the Battle of Heidleberg, the Battle of Eberstadt and the brief Siege of Mainz, the Siege of Frankfurt begins. This siege is the longest siege of the campaign, and will conclude in mid-November. The siege also sees the biggest loss of German civilian life throughout the entire course of the war.
• The Austro-Hungarian Empire, inspired by the French victories and seeing troops besieging Frankfurt, decide to take their revenge on Prussia and declare war on the 29th August. This declaration of war takes Europe by surprise, and seems to be a complete change of heart for Austria. The Prussians are severely underprepared to fight two military giants, and morale reaches a new low.
Early September
• Stuttgart becomes the first major city to fall to the French armies on the 2nd September. The French troops move on from Stuttgart to Augsburg, hoping to meet up with Austro-Hungarian troops there.
• The French army start the Siege of Cologne on 9th September.
Mid September
• After meeting little German resistance in the southern states, and after several resounding victories in what turn out to be little more than skirmishes, the Austro-Hungarian armies reach the walls of Munich by 14th September. The Siege of Munich only lasts little over two weeks before the citizens surrender.
• The Siege of Essen begins on the 17th September. It sees determined German resistance, but ultimately falls due to the sheer weight of numbers France pours into the city.
• On the 19th September, French forces win an outstanding victory in the Battle of Ulm, capturing thousands of Prussian soldiers. They also succeed in capturing the city two days later with little resistance. It seems that at least in southern Germany, the enemy are quickly becoming disheartened.
Late September
• On the 23rd September, French and Austrian forces begin the Siege of Augsburg. The first day sees enormous amounts of artillery concentrated on the city in an awesome display of firepower and dominance.
o A previously unknown German composer, and inhabitant, Adrienne Blume, writes a piece based off what he experienced that night, called Donnernacht, or Thunder Night.
• On the 29th September, after a day of door to door fighting in the city, Munich falls to the Austrian soldiers. These troops are moved up to aid at Augsburg.
October
• General MacMahon launches his famous Offensive d’Octobre (October Offensive). With the permission and blessing of Napoleon III he sends a rallying call across France for new troops to bolster their ranks and finally put an end to the Prussian menace.
• During the offensive, the entire Rhineland begins to fall.
o The Siege of Dusseldorf ends a month after it began, on the 9th October
o Despite stiff resistance Essen eventually surrenders and falls into French hands on the 27th October.
• In the South and West, Franco-Austrian or Austrian forces take city after city too, experiencing far less resistance than in the East.
o Nuremburg falls on the 18th October after the very brief two week Siege of Nuremburg
o After the Siege of Dresden, the city is captured by an Austrian army on the 24th October.
November
• Liepzig falls into Austrian hands on the 7th November. Wilhelm I becomes increasingly worried that the Franco-Austrian forces will reach be completely victorious before Christmas.
• In the North, bolstered by the events, and also eager for revenge, Denmark declare war out of nowhere against Prussia on the 10th November.
• In a rapid, evidently premeditated attack, Danish forces begin the Siege of Hamburg on the 12th November.
• On the 16th November, the Siege of Frankfurt finally comes to an end as the citizens surrender themselves to the French troops due to complete starvation. Reports come out about the conditions the Germans were subjected to during the siege, and appal Europe. There is much outcry from more liberal press in France, but it is mostly ignored.
• The Franco-Austrian and Danish alliance comes under the name of the Western Coalition. Supreme commanders meet in Essen to discuss the future of the war.
o A photograph taken here will become famous throughout the ages, and will become synonymous with MacMahon, appearing in every future historical publication on him.
• Western Coaliton forces finally all meet at the Battle of Magdeburg on the 29th November , where they resoundingly defeat what appears to be the last surviving vestiges of Prussian resistance.
• Reports come out of Berlin of an uprising against Wilhelm I. Protestors take to the streets in a violent uproar, attacking garrisoned soldiers and campaigning for an end to the war before it is too late. Wilhelm feels pressured, but is persuaded by Bismarck not to give in. Instead the riot is suppressed violently, and reports state that at least one hundred Berliners are killed in the street skirmishes, but it could have been many, many more.
December
• Western Coalition forces make it finally to Berlin by the 9th December. Plans for the German surrender are drawn up whilst artillery is brought into place to subject Berlin to a horrific bombardment. MacMahon hopes not to have to shell or attack the city, and hopes that the outcries of the Berliners will bring Wilhelm I to the negotiating table.
o As Napoleon III is feeling much better, he is called for from Paris, and begins his journey Eastward for the negotiations.
• On the night of the 9th December, riots break out all over Berlin and last for three days. MacMahon refuses to bombard the city for fear of killing too many citizens who are actually aiding him. Instead, they sit and wait and watch Berlin in flames.
• On the 13th December, Wilhelm I and Otto von Bismarck make their way to Sanssouci Palaces in Potsdam to meet with the negotiators.
• On the 16th December, after Napoleon III’s arrival and several days of hard negotiations, the Treaty of Berlin is declared, and the Western Coalition are officially victorious in what becomes known as the Prussian War.
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