What if far right in western Europe had not embraced euro skepticism?

Would the far right be more influential without euro skepticism


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What if western European far-right had not embraced euro skepticism? But instead focused on nativism,traditionalism and defending the welfare state for natives similarly as the law and order party in Poland. would they be more successful or less and what would the political ramifications be. would euro skepticism be more widespread or less so? would euro skepticism be more of a left wing position without far right adopting it?
 
basically

But isn't Socialism For White People/Nazism For Brown People the basic policy of groups like the Front National in France and the UKIP in Britain(with their pleas to spend more on national health)? And they're euroskeptic in OTL, so I'm not sure you need to make any changes to their European position to get them into SFWP/NFBP mode.

That said, I'm not overly familiar with the Law And Order Party in Poland. Are they actually pro-EU in an active way? For a well-off country where the people can plausibly believe(correct or otherwise) that they can survive without Europe, I think it makes sense for nativist parties to also be Euroskeptic, because the one thing that nativists don't want is to follow dictates from a bunch of foreign bureaucrats. Plus, being party to European(if not technically EU) immigration treaties compels them to accept migrants from all over Europe and beyond.
 
The default position for the nationalist far right is hostility towards pan-European, internationalist organisations like.the EU. To avoid this hostility happening, you'd need a very different European far right.
 
People often forget that the really awful far-righters - the fascists as opposed to the mere right-populists - have been known to call for white-nationalist concepts that involve a sort of EU expy. Oswald Mosley was quite keen on Europe A Nation, for instance, as an alternative to the Cold War divisions of the continent. It also had some currency among German and Italian fascists in the 1960s.
 
But isn't Socialism For White People/Nazism For Brown People the basic policy of groups like the Front National in France and the UKIP in Britain(with their pleas to spend more on national health)? And they're euroskeptic in OTL, so I'm not sure you need to make any changes to their European position to get them into SFWP/NFBP mode.
I don't know about the FN but UKIP aren't socialism for white people types. Their economic policy is firmly Thatcherite.
 
I don't know about the FN but UKIP aren't socialism for white people types. Their economic policy is firmly Thatcherite.
Well, it's a bit complicated - the higher ranks are all stuffy free-market libertarian types apart from the likes of Scruffy Duffy, but they said that they wanted to give some of the money currently given to Europe to the NHS in a post-Brexit society. That was mainly to seem sane and normal, though it was a factor in winning over a few of the RedKIP types. So a fair amount of 2015 UKIP voters were relatively lefty on economic matters.
 
People often forget that the really awful far-righters - the fascists as opposed to the mere right-populists - have been known to call for white-nationalist concepts that involve a sort of EU expy. Oswald Mosley was quite keen on Europe A Nation, for instance, as an alternative to the Cold War divisions of the continent. It also had some currency among German and Italian fascists in the 1960s.

This led to the formation of a sort of precursor to the transnational European political parties that are seen today - the National Party of Europe, which basically argued for a European state with a European parliament and an alternative to capitalism and communism as a sort of counterweight to the Soviets and Americans. Interestingly it also advocated for speedy decolonisation and the formation of majority rule governments in the former European colonies. It was sort of certain to fail due to the demand to rename all member parties to the NPE. In the sixties some of these parties, in particular the Italian Social Movement and to a lesser extent the German NPD (which it is important to note was not as such neo-Nazi during the sixties) had some success. Though like future attempts at far-right groupings in the European Parliament, it was destined to fall apart due to the divisions within its ranks and the inherent nationalism of each party. (For the NPE Mosley gave up on elected politics after his poor showing at the 1966 GE, the Belgian MAC party veered towards a form of nationalistic communism, the NPD eventually became a neo-Nazi entity and the ISM eventually moderated to become the reasonably success National Alliance in the 1990s.)
 
Thiriart was certainly an Individual. He ought to appear in a TL at some point.

Oh definitely, National Bolshevism is up there with the weirder ideologies of the 20th century. IIRC Thiriart's ideas would be the basis of the peculiar National Bolshevik PCN in Belgium, which among its policies included support for pan-Arabism, European nationalism, 'anti-Yankee and Zionism'-ism and self professed ecologism. I'm not sure if it could be considered a European equivalent of Ba'athism, but it would certainly make for an interesting TL idea if it went about trying to gain a foothold in a more dystopian post-war Europe similar to how Ba'athism gained popularity in various parts of the ME.
 
I think this question is probably too complex for me to feel comfortable voting for one of the three options above. UKIP undoubtedly owe their status to their unambiguous support for withdrawal. That was what motivated people who knew very little about them to vote them into the European Parliament, which is what first made them prominent. But the UK is a special case. In other places, I'd say that, whilst scepticism of the EU can be an electoral asset, support for outright withdrawal can weigh a party down. This is the case for the FN, FPO and PVV, and I know that the first two at least have been looking to tone down their rhetoric in those areas recently to appeal to the electorate on the basis of identity based issues instead.

I'd say parties like PiS actually practice a form of soft euroscepticism, without outright support for withdrawal. I think that would likely be the more successful route for far right parties to pursue in most countries, with the exception of the UK, of course.
But isn't Socialism For White People/Nazism For Brown People the basic policy of groups like the Front National in France and the UKIP in Britain(with their pleas to spend more on national health)? And they're euroskeptic in OTL, so I'm not sure you need to make any changes to their European position to get them into SFWP/NFBP mode.
The FN (at least under the current Le Pen) is genuinely committed to economic interventionism, provided it is to protect the right people. Though UKIP gets the backing of economically interventionist, socially conservative types (polling has actually put their voters as more left wing than Labour's on some issues) their leaders are instinctive Thatcherites, and strongly pro free-trade, in contrast with Le Pen and Trump. But they are a socially conservative populist party first and foremost, so they are willing to sacrifice aspects of economic policy for more votes. That doesn't change the fact that many of their most prominent figures have called for the NHS to be privatised at one stage or another, with its general secretary comparing it to Hitlers bunker at one stage.
 
The original post seems to assume that anything short of bring totally anti-EU cannot be "Euro-skeptic." I don't think that's how the latter term is generally used. E.g., "Nevertheless, Orbán was always careful to never go as far as to question Hungary's EU membership; he transformed Fidesz into a euro-sceptic but not anti-EU party." http://trulies-europe.de/?p=374

I do not think that any right-wing party dedicated to "nativism, traditionalism and defending the welfare state for natives" could *not* be Euro-skeptical in the sense of questioning some of the policies of the actually-existing-EU.
 
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I could totally see a far right party that believes in order to fight against the decline of whites in Europe all of white Europe needs to unite together
 
I could totally see a far right party that believes in order to fight against the decline of whites in Europe all of white Europe needs to unite together
I think many of them already believe some variation of that, especially in Eastern Europe. The problem is getting them to view the EU uncritically as a vehicle for that, and in order to accomplish that you'd need it to have basically have been founded with that as a guiding principle. I think that sounds pretty bloody dystopian, but I don't know whether it is actually possible.
 

Archibald

Banned
For the Front national: far less. When daddy Le Pen (racism against muslims and jews) passed the baton to Daughter Le Pen in 2011, Marine LP was quick to ride the wave of euroskepticism.

The FN core strategy was, and still is, anti-Euro. Europe is bad, steal your jobs, euro is too expensive, let's go back to the Franc as before 2002.

Which is a completely stupid strategy, since most reasonable economists assume that getting out of the Euro pretty much anihilate a country economy.

Florian Philippot realized this, and dared to tell MLP that the FN economic program is completely nut. MLP didn't cared, and Philippot slammed the door. Macron had no difficulty steamrolling MLP during the debate.
 
For the Front national: far less. When daddy Le Pen (racism against muslims and jews) passed the baton to Daughter Le Pen in 2011, Marine LP was quick to ride the wave of euroskepticism.

The FN core strategy was, and still is, anti-Euro. Europe is bad, steal your jobs, euro is too expensive, let's go back to the Franc as before 2002.

Which is a completely stupid strategy, since most reasonable economists assume that getting out of the Euro pretty much annihilate a country economy.

Florian Philippot realized this, and dared to tell MLP that the FN economic program is completely nut. MLP didn't cared, and Philippot slammed the door. Macron had no difficulty steamrolling MLP during the debate.
In the financially solvent euro countries, sure.
PIGS would probably benefit from such a thing though.
 

Deleted member 1487

People often forget that the really awful far-righters - the fascists as opposed to the mere right-populists - have been known to call for white-nationalist concepts that involve a sort of EU expy. Oswald Mosley was quite keen on Europe A Nation, for instance, as an alternative to the Cold War divisions of the continent. It also had some currency among German and Italian fascists in the 1960s.
The Nazis had plans for a united Europe too, but it was united under Germany's control. Mosley was never popular in Britain, while good luck getting the Fascists of Europe to cooperate under one leader; even the Germans and Italians could not play nicely among each other, while the Germans exploited the weaker allied Fascist powers of the Balkans. Even the Finns were terrified about falling too closely under German authority.
 
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