What if Europe discovers the America's 200 year earlier.

mojojojo

Gone Fishin'
I am really interested in how the native Americans could have evolved themselves. It would be great to see a European-like America. A American country colonizing Europe would even be greater:D but wouldn't be possible.

Imagine how the world would look like if the American states and tribes would have been powerfull enough to prevent the Europeans of colonizing them because they had time to adapt themselves. English and Spanish would be less used languages, probaly no powerfull America intervening the wars against Germany(if this still would have happened), christianity wouldn't have spreadd so easily in America and much more.
You need to check out the 5500 timeline
 

Olmeka

Banned
moetah-based on my personal interest in the area and history, I think your expectations can't be fulfilled. The cultures of America were on early pre-bronze age level of development(rough assumption, I know their were areas with specialised metallurgy especially regarding ornaments). It would take thousands of years for them to reach European level of development-you would need ASB timeshift.
You need to check out the 5500 timeline
I think somebody published also a book about this ?
 
As perviously mentioned, the black plauge and arupt climate changes 50 years later, wouldn't theses two events encourage people to migrate across the Atlantic for warmer and better farmlands and lower threat of black plague? (Maybe some the the royal fled to America??)
 

mojojojo

Gone Fishin'
moetah-based on my personal interest in the area and history, I think your expectations can't be fulfilled. The cultures of America were on early pre-bronze age level of development(rough assumption, I know their were areas with specialised metallurgy especially regarding ornaments). It would take thousands of years for them to reach European level of development-you would need ASB timeshift.

I think somebody published also a book about this ?
not on the 5500 time line!
 
More whites in the Americas, lesser blacks, lesser Native Americans.

Good points, the Native population might suffer even more as (depending on you earlier European arrival) you risk spreading black plague to the Americas along with all the other goodies the Euro's had.

Europe also might not yet be in a position to introduce slavery and dominate 3 continents (S.America, NAmerica, and Africa).
 
Bright day
Well, most of Americas do not have population density high enough to sustain highly infectious disease.

But the places which might have, are also the places which could be most interesting (though I am not a fan of TLs like guns of Tawantisuyo)
 

Stalker

Banned
Guns, Germs, and Steel by Jared Diamond give a well-grounded explanations why Eurasia was able to develop rapidly and other continental landmasses failed to match such a rate of development.
 
Maybe when the native Americans were slowly confronted with more and more Europeans for 200 years they would be able to prevent being colonised or at least maintain some native kingdoms/states.
 
Keep in mind that fifty years after you start your colony your home country is going to have the Black Plague show up and make people in the home country much less interested in leaving for the New World.
With fifty years of immigration, and new riches
brought from the new world,the black plague may even be butterflied away. Less population density, less misery, this all reduces vulnerability to the black plague.
 
Were not firearms much less sophisticated in the late 1200s?

Does this not have an siginificant effect on the likely result of any hostile confrontation?
 
Were not firearms much less sophisticated in the late 1200s?

Does this not have an siginificant effect on the likely result of any hostile confrontation?

Not necessarily. Guns are overestimated on their own. They came as part of a package of close-order infeantry tactics, metal arms and armour, cavalry. wheeled transport and pack animals, advanced seafaring, a much more pragmatic approach to war and a deadly disease cocktail. the rest of it should be pretty effective on its own.

Of course, around 1250 that package wasn't quite there yet in many respects.
 

mojojojo

Gone Fishin'
Bright day
Well, most of Americas do not have population density high enough to sustain highly infectious disease.

But the places which might have, are also the places which could be most interesting (though I am not a fan of TLs like guns of Tawantisuyo)
what is that TL?:confused:
 
Sadly, the potato is at the wrong end of the Americas. I could see maize becoming popular, though, and the Europeans will like American strawberries and squashes.

Newbie first post. One, just when was Maize introduced into Europe. In SE Europe it is my understanding that Maize was known as "Turkish Corn". If maize is being grown in SE Europe pre 1492 just how did it get there? The most likely means is by Arab or Islamic seaman. If Islamic technology had produced vessels that where used in the Indian Ocean trade routes and were capable of making sea voyages to the region of China and The East Indies Then the Atlantic should of been no problem for them. Imagine the problems of European settlers faced with a Islamic Native American population
 
Newbie first post. One, just when was Maize introduced into Europe. In SE Europe it is my understanding that Maize was known as "Turkish Corn". If maize is being grown in SE Europe pre 1492 just how did it get there? The most likely means is by Arab or Islamic seaman. If Islamic technology had produced vessels that where used in the Indian Ocean trade routes and were capable of making sea voyages to the region of China and The East Indies Then the Atlantic should of been no problem for them. Imagine the problems of European settlers faced with a Islamic Native American population

Maize became popular in Ottoman territories in the 16th century and in much of Southwestern Europe in the 17th and 18th. There are few if any indications that it was known prior to 1492 (the famous, but very inconclusive carving in Rosslyn Chapel is one, and then there are historians who refer to 'polenta' in earlier accounts - which was made from barley before maize took over).

Thing is, maize was a poor man's choice, a substitute for 'proper' grains. New World squashes (cucurbita genus), OTOH, took over almost completely because they were entirely familiar - just like the European ones (lagenaria genus), only better. This is a fairly typical pattern, which means the potato has two strikes against it.
 
what is that TL?:confused:

Guns of Tawantisuyo, suprisingly (spelling of Tawantisuyo is subject to change, Gladi does not guarantee of Tawantisuyo being found using search engine, Gladi does not take any complaints concerning the name Tawantisuyo).
 
You need to check out the 5500 timeline
:eek:Thanks, mojojojo. Uh I don't think my TL is what you're looking for as it just kills off all Old Worlders at the start. If you do wish to look at the TL it's in my sig.

As perviously mentioned, the black plauge and arupt climate changes 50 years later, wouldn't theses two events encourage people to migrate across the Atlantic for warmer and better farmlands and lower threat of black plague? (Maybe some the the royal fled to America??)
In the empty America TL on SHWI, some English royalty flees to America, although that is based more on a dynastic dispute then anything else.

Good points, the Native population might suffer even more as (depending on you earlier European arrival) you risk spreading black plague to the Americas along with all the other goodies the Euro's had.
The Black Plague is an interesting disease, as it is only spread by the Black Rat. Black rats are found only in isolated parts of North America today (mostly along the northeast coast), but that has more to do with the spread of the Norwegian rat. I was unable to find information on where the Black rat might want to live in North America, but I don''t think it would spread that fast, and by extension the Bubonic Plague will not splead that fast.

Maybe when the native Americans were slowly confronted with more and more Europeans for 200 years they would be able to prevent being colonised or at least maintain some native kingdoms/states.
Thats very hard, due to the massive death rates (80-90%) that most native American tribes experience when exposed to Europeann diseases.

Not necessarily. Guns are overestimated on their own. They came as part of a package of close-order infeantry tactics, metal arms and armour, cavalry. wheeled transport and pack animals, advanced seafaring, a much more pragmatic approach to war and a deadly disease cocktail. the rest of it should be pretty effective on its own.

Of course, around 1250 that package wasn't quite there yet in many respects.
War was just as pragmatic as in Europe in most of North America. it was only in Mesoamerica where it was heavily ritualized.

what is that TL?:confused:
http://www.geocities.com/robertp6165/tawantinsuyacontents.htm. A TL about the incas with gunpowder and a modern empire.
 
Guns of Tawantisuyo, suprisingly (spelling of Tawantisuyo is subject to change, Gladi does not guarantee of Tawantisuyo being found using search engine, Gladi does not take any complaints concerning the name Tawantisuyo).
Considering there are about three different "official" ways of spelling Tawantinsuyu (or any word in Quechua), I wouldn't worry about it.
 

bard32

Banned
What if the new world was discovered by Europe in 1292 instead of 1492? What nation would be most likely to do this, and what effects would it have on the Old World and New of this time period?

Glad you asked. I was doing an alternate history story about this. In it, wayward Crusaders were washed up on the shores of America, and set up their own petty kingdoms. It would have been a culture shock.
 

mojojojo

Gone Fishin'
:eek:Thanks, mojojojo. Uh I don't think my TL is what you're looking for as it just kills off all Old Worlders at the start. If you do wish to look at the TL it's in my sig.
So when will the next update on your TL be?
 
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