As the title says, sometime during Queen Mary I’s reign, she marries Elizabeth to Emmanuel Philibert, Duke of Savoy, as was floated around in OTL. What now? Would Elizabeth still become Queen if she’s married to a foreigner? Obviously she’d have Philip’s backing but might some nobles resist?
What if Elizabeth Tudor married Emmanuel Philibert?
- Thread starter RedKing
- Start date
I'd be interested to know how the english would react to the prospect of a catholic heir...obviously if she becomes queen then elizabeth can do what she wants re:religion but i'm sure that any child of hers with emmanuel philibert would be baptised catholic...
And by this I just mean that elizabeth can choose not to be catholic if she wants. a similar religious settlement to otl is not entirely out of the question.
Exactly, if she becomes Queen and maintains her Protestantism (in secret), she might try and bypass her eldest Catholic son in favour of a younger Protestant one. Heck, she might not even become Queen as the English Protestants might rally around Katherine Grey!
The english populace seems to have viewed elizabeth as mary's heir regardless of religion...in fact i'd say that elizabeth's reign here would go even more smoothly because philip might not support mary queen of scots if his cousin is elizabeth's consort.
IOTL philip did unironically support elizabeth until the death of francis ii of france.
Deleted member 143920
Wouldn't religion be an issue? Also, Savoy isn't exactly close to England, nor is it very useful either. But this is Mary, who is: Catholic, married to Philip 2nd of Spain, and obviously Queen of England; so forcing her younger half-sister to marry a pro Habsburg duke who would act as a counter to France shouldn't be too difficult.
As for when Elizabeth ascends to the throne, it is likely that due to her marriage (before she would become queen), she would at least 'accept advice' from her husband, while in reality sharing power.
Supposing that she remains Protestant, and Charles Emmanuel obviously remaining Catholic, you could have the eldest son raised as Protestant and inherit England, while the second eldest son would subsequently be raised Catholic and inherit Savoy (that's just an idea).
Overall, I don't know enough to give a detailed opinion, but a Savoyard England is something I never heard of before!
Yeah that's true, I mean it will be much less tepid here, as she'll be viewed as better than all her alternatives.
Agreed, I was referring to a handful of Protestant nobles, fearing a future Catholic Italian King, rallying behind Katherine Grey. For the most part the succession would go smoothly, especially since the 200 Pound gorilla that is Spain will back Liz and Emmanuel.
He did in OTL, though he only did so since it was that of a PU between France and England.
Yes, I could see some Protestants rallying around the Grey sisters in hopes of keeping Liz out of England, though any such attempt would be crushed.
True about the first bit, not so much the second. Savoy is in a strategic place to antagonise France, and so it could help the English retake Calais.
It was floated around in OTL, I can’t remember why it didn’t happen though.
Agreed, or she’ll just send him to Savoy and try and keep him there for as often as possible.
I think Elizabeth will likely try and do this with the second son, since the first son is likely to be raised by Emmanuel and be a Catholic as a result.
I mean going off the Jacobite succession there would have been a House of Savoy ruling England. And yes it is quite an interesting idea!
About Savoy, right now Emmanuel Philibert is landless as France has taken possession of his Duchy (and he would get it back only in 1559 as dowry of Henry II of France’s sister Margaret, reason for which he married her despite the fact who she was five years older and already over 35 years old)
Ooh, so he'd be a landless Duke when he marries Elizabeth? Maybe he can launch a reconquest with her to retake it?
Pretty unlikely they will be able to do that (or Elizabeth interested in it)
Oh, so she'll just have this titular Italian Duke with her in England, which means they'll probably have lots and kids and have to work as co-rulers then? Wonder how the whole religion aspect will work out.
Why? The threat of philip invading will surely be no worse than iotl and elizabeth still pursued a decidedly protestant religious settlement.
Before regaining Savoy, Emmanuel-Philibert was governor of Netherlands. So, I guess he and Elizabeth would live there, not in England, during the end of Mary's reign.
Of course, with Mary's death, Elizabeth would come back to England to take the crown.
Then, I am pretty sure she would do the same thing as in OTL: make England Anglican again.
What would Emmanuel-Philibert do? Would he convert to Anglicanism and join Elizabeth in England?
If so, they may have some Anglican children to inherit England, which means no union between Scotland and England. But Emmanuel-Philibert would likely lose any chance to regain Savoy if he converts to Anglicanism.
If he refuses to convert, he would probably stay in Netherlands and Elizabeth is likely to do the same thing as her father: an Anglican annulment of their mariage.
An open question, if Emmanuel-Philibert does not convert, is about the potential children. They may have one or two children before Mary's death. Would Emmanuel-Philibert accept to send them to Elizabeth in England? Or would he keep them in Netherlands and raise them as Catholics?
The last option might lead to a quite interesting situation. Even if Elizabeth excludes her Catholic children from the succession, most people in England would probably see them as her legitimate heirs. Also, the Spanish would support them.
Of course, the logical Catholic claimer would still be Mary Queen of Scots as Elizabeth would still be a bastard in the eyes of Catholic canon law.
Of course, with Mary's death, Elizabeth would come back to England to take the crown.
Then, I am pretty sure she would do the same thing as in OTL: make England Anglican again.
What would Emmanuel-Philibert do? Would he convert to Anglicanism and join Elizabeth in England?
If so, they may have some Anglican children to inherit England, which means no union between Scotland and England. But Emmanuel-Philibert would likely lose any chance to regain Savoy if he converts to Anglicanism.
If he refuses to convert, he would probably stay in Netherlands and Elizabeth is likely to do the same thing as her father: an Anglican annulment of their mariage.
An open question, if Emmanuel-Philibert does not convert, is about the potential children. They may have one or two children before Mary's death. Would Emmanuel-Philibert accept to send them to Elizabeth in England? Or would he keep them in Netherlands and raise them as Catholics?
The last option might lead to a quite interesting situation. Even if Elizabeth excludes her Catholic children from the succession, most people in England would probably see them as her legitimate heirs. Also, the Spanish would support them.
Of course, the logical Catholic claimer would still be Mary Queen of Scots as Elizabeth would still be a bastard in the eyes of Catholic canon law.
Deleted member 147978
This What If makes me wonder if the Anglican / Calvinist in Merry Ole England would even accept Elizabeth with her would-be Italianized Catholic Savoyard Husband.