What if Dauphine is not sold to France

The significant debts of Humbert II and the death of his son and heir led to the sale of his lordship to King Philip VI in 1349, by the terms of the treaty of Romans, negotiated by his protonotary, Amblard de Beaumont. A major condition was that the heir to the throne of France would be known as le Dauphin, which was the case from that time until the French Revolution; the first Dauphin de France was Philippe's grandson, the future Charles V of France. The title[6] also conferred an appanage on the region. Charles V spent nine months in his new territory.
Humbert's agreement further stipulated that Dauphiné would be exempted from many taxes (like the gabelle); this statute was the subject of much subsequent parliamentary debate at the regional level, as local leaders sought to defend this regional autonomy and privilege from the state's assaults.

What if instead Humbert II still dies Childless and not sold it to France there is a Chance for it to Join Savoy, how would a Savoy Dauphine effect Dauphine in the long term.
 
Actually, if France fails to buy the Dauphiné (something they were really, really interested about), the most likely candidate would be the Papal States.

OTL, the french king sent one of their men advise the pope on the question, and Benedict followed the matter less closely.

However, let's imagine Philippe VI using his money for something else (it would require a serious issue to do that), and Benedict XII would be a likely choice. You would need to butterfly away the election of Clement VI (a former french advisor) or having Humbert dying early.

Another possible candidate would be Angevins of Naples, that Humbert knew for having been part of their court. It's less likely than Papal States, but still makes sense as it would allow Anjou-Sicile to expand their provencal holdings.
It would require the butterfly of Hungrian invasion of Italy however, as the war drained out many napolitan ressources.

The angevine candidacy would be more easily accepted by Valois, as it could eventually turn in their favor, but not that much. Furthermore, as Humbert II was the son of Beatrix of Hungary, an equivalent treaty could have a familial base.

Savoy seems really unlikely : Dauphiné won't come cheaply and if Valois can't have it, they would do the necessary to favour a close house or at least, that the buyer comes out with far less money. Savoy doesn't have the ressources for that.

But again, any alternate candidacy should be preceded by an important PoD for France : Dauphiné was one of the main focus of french kings, and they expected to take it.
 
Actually, if France fails to buy the Dauphiné (something they were really, really interested about), the most likely candidate would be the Papal States.

OTL, the french king sent one of their men advise the pope on the question, and Benedict followed the matter less closely.

However, let's imagine Philippe VI using his money for something else (it would require a serious issue to do that), and Benedict XII would be a likely choice. You would need to butterfly away the election of Clement VI (a former french advisor) or having Humbert dying early.

Another possible candidate would be Angevins of Naples, that Humbert knew for having been part of their court. It's less likely than Papal States, but still makes sense as it would allow Anjou-Sicile to expand their provencal holdings.
It would require the butterfly of Hungrian invasion of Italy however, as the war drained out many napolitan ressources.

The angevine candidacy would be more easily accepted by Valois, as it could eventually turn in their favor, but not that much. Furthermore, as Humbert II was the son of Beatrix of Hungary, an equivalent treaty could have a familial base.

Savoy seems really unlikely : Dauphiné won't come cheaply and if Valois can't have it, they would do the necessary to favour a close house or at least, that the buyer comes out with far less money. Savoy doesn't have the ressources for that.

But again, any alternate candidacy should be preceded by an important PoD for France : Dauphiné was one of the main focus of french kings, and they expected to take it.

Is there a chance for Dauphiné to become a part of Switzerland.
 
Is there a chance for Dauphiné to become a part of Switzerland.

No.

Switzerland didn't existed yet, something that is a big obstacle.

What existed was a newbord Confederacy (that would be called "Confederacy of Eight Cantons" when...well they would be eight), being in war with Habsburgs, dealing with neighbouring cantons.

Heck, it didn't even bordered Dauphiné. It didn't have the ressources, the influence and most of all the reason to do that (admitting they can fool everyone passing for a viable candidate).
 
No.

Switzerland didn't existed yet, something that is a big obstacle.

What existed was a newbord Confederacy (that would be called "Confederacy of Eight Cantons" when...well they would be eight), being in war with Habsburgs, dealing with neighbouring cantons.

Heck, it didn't even bordered Dauphiné. It didn't have the ressources, the influence and most of all the reason to do that (admitting they can fool everyone passing for a viable candidate).

So, at that time Dauphine would go to France sooner or later, I am also thinking about Provence, does France think of Provence at that time as a fief of France given to the King of Naples or simply a domain of the King Naples, at the point when Dauphine is taken Joan of Naples is ruling Provence, is there also a chance that the King of France try to confiscate Provence from Joan of Naples.

And if Dauphine is taken by the Papal States would France try to get it later or how would France get it.
 
is there also a chance that the King of France try to confiscate Provence from Joan of Naples.
No. A king couldn't confiscate lands that didn't were on his suzerainty. Provence was an imperial land, not of France (while on french sphere of interests, tough).
The best you could reach would be an earlier takeover of Louis d'Anjou during his campaign, and you could admittedly prevent the civil war between pro-Anjou and pro-Duras.

For that, Naples being under Louis hands seems necessary in first place (but in 1350's in order to have Jeanne breaking her promises regarding Provence administration and weakening her position, but that's doable.

Then, in a less well held provence (and critically with an authoritarian and brutal Louis de Tarente), Louis d'Anjou could have a better deal and the province could be gradually (and more peacefully) integrated into French sphere of influence (not having the ressources or the possibility to refugee in Italy could lead to a sattelization).

If you're searching for an earlier french Provence, you should look at Philippe III not giving the Marquisat of Provence to papacy. It would be costly, tough, as the pope isn't going to like it much.
 
No. A king couldn't confiscate lands that didn't were on his suzerainty. Provence was an imperial land, not of France (while on french sphere of interests, tough).
The best you could reach would be an earlier takeover of Louis d'Anjou during his campaign, and you could admittedly prevent the civil war between pro-Anjou and pro-Duras.

For that, Naples being under Louis hands seems necessary in first place (but in 1350's in order to have Jeanne breaking her promises regarding Provence administration and weakening her position, but that's doable.

Then, in a less well held provence (and critically with an authoritarian and brutal Louis de Tarente), Louis d'Anjou could have a better deal and the province could be gradually (and more peacefully) integrated into French sphere of influence (not having the ressources or the possibility to refugee in Italy could lead to a sattelization).

If you're searching for an earlier french Provence, you should look at Philippe III not giving the Marquisat of Provence to papacy. It would be costly, tough, as the pope isn't going to like it much.
What about having John I of France survive, doesn't he have a claim to Provence as well..another POD is to have Catherine of Naples, the daughter of Joanna survive, she could marry Louis of Anjou but it will be a long wait for him.
 
What about having John I of France survive, doesn't he have a claim to Provence as well..
No, he didn't. Only in the CKII games you can have "claims" because you're born of a matrilinear family that owes one.

another POD is to have Catherine of Naples, the daughter of Joanna survive, she could marry Louis of Anjou but it will be a long wait for him.
It could work better with one of the two other marriages resulting in a surviving daughter, that would serve to cement an agreement with Louis (that wouldn't be adopted then, of course).
 
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