What if Darlan orders French ships to leave British ports?

I have very little information about the French Fleet between 22nd June 1940 and 3rd July 1940, so I am posting this in the hope that someone else knows something. My question is what if Darlan had ordered any ships in British controlled ports on the 22nd June to sail to French controlled or neutral ports as soon as possible. OTL Darlan probably saw no need to do this because he may not have been hostile to Britain before 3rd July and the threat of handing over the French Fleet to Britain was one of the few cards that France held over Germany. In any case, many of the ships in British ports were not in any condition to go to sea. However, had Darlan sent such an order it would have placed the British in a difficult position as action against the French ships would have made a surprise attack on other ship much more difficult. There was also a further problem in the 22nd to 25th June period as some RN ships may have been in French controlled ports although I am not sure, for example, when Hermes left Dakar.
 

Graehame

Banned
My question is what if Darlan had ordered any ships in British controlled ports on the 22nd June to sail to French controlled or neutral ports as soon as possible. OTL Darlan probably saw no need to do this because he may not have been hostile to Britain before 3rd July and the threat of handing over the French Fleet to Britain was one of the few cards that France held over Germany.
Before the ships in Brit ports were boarded by Brit troops, & before the RN opened fire on the French fleet, why would he? The Brits were his trusted allies. And keeping the ships out of German hands was the reason for them having sailed to Brit ports in the 1st place. I'm sure that Darlan, Petain, & co. hadn't the remotest clue that their good buddies the Brits would actually board some French ships & open fire on others.
 

Cook

Banned
The only French ships in British ports were Force X, the French squadron for the Eastern Mediterranean, in Alexandria. All were in good condition having not seen combat.

OTL Darlan probably saw no need to do this because he may not have been hostile to Britain before 3rd July and the threat of handing over the French Fleet to Britain was one of the few cards that France held over Germany

Darlan was most definitely hostile to the British prior to the 30 July 1940 British attack on the French fleet at Oran. He had been negotiating with the Germans to improve Vichy’s position.
 
Before the ships in Brit ports were boarded by Brit troops, & before the RN opened fire on the French fleet, why would he? The Brits were his trusted allies. And keeping the ships out of German hands was the reason for them having sailed to Brit ports in the 1st place. I'm sure that Darlan, Petain, & co. hadn't the remotest clue that their good buddies the Brits would actually board some French ships & open fire on others.

Why would he? Perhaps because the French government had surrendered and was discussing a peace treaty with the Nazis, a treaty that of course included the fate of all French military assets. It was easy to see how this would play out, the Vichy government would order all their ships to return to the mainland, where there was a real danger that the Nazis would seize them and use them against the British.

Under those circumstances is it surprising that the British got there first?

Because by this point the French had ceased to be allies of the British, the French had surrendered and sought peace (something that they were not supposed to do by the way) and that meant that the British had to protect their own interests and not those of a FORMER ally

Unless the French admirals were completely niave they must have at least suspected that the British would do something to ensure that their ships didnt end up in Nazi hands.
The British were in a position where they couldnt trust the word of the nazis not to take the french ships, and they couldnt trust the word of the Vichy government that they wouldnt let the nazis take their ships. Both sides had broken their vows in the past.
 

Cook

Banned
Unless the French admirals were completely niave...

Well they must have been because regardless of the usual muttering about perfidious Albion the 30th of July came as quite a shock and the French Admirals couldn’t believe the British would open fire on them.
 
Darlan might not have been very enthusiastic toward his British Allies, but he defenitely was anti German and would certainly prevent to have part of the French Navy fall into hands of the Axis Powers.

Technically the ships in British ports taken by the British, aftart France ordered a cease fire, were mostly those not considered fit for any sort of active dueties in modern warfare situations. The old Dreadnoughts Paris and Courbet were in British Chanalports and of little use anyway, already being reclassified as auxilliaries prior to the French surrender. The battleship Lorraine and the cruisers in Alexandria were mostly old and of limmited use, having all been illequipped for modern warfare and poorly armored, combined with a too limmted radius. Ships located elsewhere under British controll were not much better. Only the modern fast Contre Torpilleur Le Triomphante was usefull, but a bit short ranged.

So even if all these ships had remained under controll of Darlan, this would not have woried the British more than already was the case, since the only units of the French Fleet to be worrying about were the two fast battleships Dunkerque and Strasbourg, as well as the uncompleted larger Richelieu and Jean Bart, besides the cruisers of the French Fleet. The rest was not thought of highly.

Darlan was known to have arranged the French Fleet to make for Northern African ports mostly, to keep them away from the Germans, who actually were not much interested in the Marine Nacional, unknown to the British. It was Italy, who was more interested in the French ships, since the Germans were not even capable of dealing with such a sudden enlargement of their own fleet. (Manningproblem and training with non standard equipment.)
 
Top