What if Darius I dies in Scythia?

I don't know if this has been discussed before, I've searched the forums but couldn't find anything useful.

So, what if Darius I dies in his campaign in Scythia, around 513 BC, or even in Thrace either on his way to Scythia or on his way back to Sardis, doesn't matter. This would leave his 5 year old "born in the purple" son and designated heir Xerxes competing for the throne against his elder half brother Artobarzanes, who was born to a commoner wife before Darius' rise to power. In OTL Xerxes won the throne but he was 27 years older, so it would make sense that in this scenario he wouldn't have the same chances. Who would win the throne, one of the two brothers, or someone else, a general or a powerful satrap? How would this affect the future Greco-Persian wars?
 
I would like to see what comes of this, but I personally don't know how different the world would become as a result...
 

Arrix85

Donor
I would like to see what comes of this, but I personally don't know how different the world would become as a result...

very different, the butterflies are hard masters. ;) (and it would be decided by the author, since it's not really a science, the most we can ask for is for the story to be believable).
 
I'LL try and have a go at this:

Persia: a 5 year old vs his half brother is a done deal. i dont know how well the Persian sartraps would act to a low-birth King of Kings, but there is bound to be resistance and break away regions. how well they would recover is entirely up to factors i have no major knowledge about.

Greece: my guess the anatolian greek cities would try to break off whil some remain loyal. Athens would probably support them in some way. without a major persian threat, their is no need to cooperate against a major foe so they will just do what greeks did best at that time, i guess

the rest: Thrace has the liberty to deal with matters on their own, maybe even a chance for a stronger and more united kingdom. Scythians might take the chance to raid some persian satrapies, some might even settle down.

as for rome, I dont know, but in my opinion the troubels of the Persians would not effect them yet. that all depends on the butterflies the size of moons
 
I think I'm going to get a detailed description of the current state of the civilized world around this PoD, and possible consequences of Darius dying...

Thrace: If Thrace has the liberty to deal with more matters of it's own, then it should be able to found a Odrysian-like confederation 50 years sooner, then into a more centralized Kingdom over time.

Divided into separate tribes, the Thracians did not manage to form a lasting political organization until the Odrysian state was founded in the 5th century BC OTL. Like the Illyrians, the mountainous regions were home to people regarded as various warlike and ferocious Thracian tribes, while the plains peoples were apparently regarded as more peaceable. These Indo-European peoples, while considered barbarian and rural by their refined and urbanized Greek neighbors, had developed advanced forms of music, poetry, industry, and artistic crafts. Aligning themselves in kingdoms and tribes, they never achieved any form of national unity beyond short, dynastic rules at the height of the Greek classical period. Similar to the Gauls and other Celtic tribes, most people are thought to have lived simply in small fortified villages, usually on hilltops.


By the 5th century BC, the Thracian presence was pervasive enough to have made Herodotus call them the second-most numerous people in the part of the world known by him (after the Indians), and potentially the most powerful, if not for their lack of unity. The Thracians in classical times were broken up into a large number of groups and tribes, though a number of powerful Thracian states were organized, such as the Odrysian kingdom of Thrace and the Dacian kingdom of Burebista. A type of soldier of this period called the Peltast probably originated in Thrace.
During this period, a subculture of celibate ascetics called the Ctistae lived in Thrace, where they served as philosophers, priests and prophets.
In that period, contacts between the Thracians and Classical Greece intensified.

If we were to perhaps have Hellene architects and city planners be sent to Thrace early on, however that may happen, then the Thracians will be able to start building proper planned cities and increase agriculture, thus strengthening the demand for a more unified state. A kingdom like this with a particularly strong dynasty and army could unite all the Balkan tribes north of Hellas up to the Carpathians I bet.
 
I think I'm going to get a detailed description of the current state of the civilized world around this PoD, and possible consequences of Darius dying...

Thrace: If Thrace has the liberty to deal with more matters of it's own, then it should be able to found a Odrysian-like confederation 50 years sooner, then into a more centralized Kingdom over time.

Divided into separate tribes, the Thracians did not manage to form a lasting political organization until the Odrysian state was founded in the 5th century BC OTL. Like the Illyrians, the mountainous regions were home to people regarded as various warlike and ferocious Thracian tribes, while the plains peoples were apparently regarded as more peaceable. These Indo-European peoples, while considered barbarian and rural by their refined and urbanized Greek neighbors, had developed advanced forms of music, poetry, industry, and artistic crafts. Aligning themselves in kingdoms and tribes, they never achieved any form of national unity beyond short, dynastic rules at the height of the Greek classical period. Similar to the Gauls and other Celtic tribes, most people are thought to have lived simply in small fortified villages, usually on hilltops.


By the 5th century BC, the Thracian presence was pervasive enough to have made Herodotus call them the second-most numerous people in the part of the world known by him (after the Indians), and potentially the most powerful, if not for their lack of unity. The Thracians in classical times were broken up into a large number of groups and tribes, though a number of powerful Thracian states were organized, such as the Odrysian kingdom of Thrace and the Dacian kingdom of Burebista. A type of soldier of this period called the Peltast probably originated in Thrace.
During this period, a subculture of celibate ascetics called the Ctistae lived in Thrace, where they served as philosophers, priests and prophets.
In that period, contacts between the Thracians and Classical Greece intensified.

If we were to perhaps have Hellene architects and city planners be sent to Thrace early on, however that may happen, then the Thracians will be able to start building proper planned cities and increase agriculture, thus strengthening the demand for a more unified state. A kingdom like this with a particularly strong dynasty and army could unite all the Balkan tribes north of Hellas up to the Carpathians I bet.

Actually I think the lack of a Persian European satrapy wouldn't automatically mean an earlier Thracian state. After all, the Odrysian state was founded right after the collapse of the Persian power in Europe, because of the power vacuum created. So without a Persian satrapy the Thracians might as well continue to live in small tribes which characterized throughout their history, with the only one exception, the Odrysian Kingdom.

I'm more interested in what would happen with the Greco-Persian wars. Delayed or completely butterflied? I tend to say delayed until the Persian Empire consolidates again.
 
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