What if Columbus's expedition had been backed by another country besides Spain? Leading canidates would be Portugal and England, though Genoa and Venice are also possiblities. Which other canidate do you think is most likely and how would the colonization of the America's be altered? Would that nation go on to build an empire like Spain's, or would they be slower to the punch?
What If Columbus had not Set Sail for Spain?
- Thread starter Yelnoc
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I think there was a TL about the HRE funding the expedition...
Anyway, I guess, in America, anyone who funds Columbus gets Spain's role (Conquest, gold, glory, God).
Anyway, I guess, in America, anyone who funds Columbus gets Spain's role (Conquest, gold, glory, God).
ImperialVienna's TL, Hail Germania is the one you're talking about, Polish Eagle. Columbus sails for Maximilian I.
I think Portugal is very unlikely, simply because Columbus was proposing to find the Indies... they already knew the route to the Indies/Orient was around Africa. England is a definite possibility, although Henry VII was very tightfisted about his money. Not to mention, if Columbus sets sail from a more northerly climate, he'll make landfall around OTL Canada and such, won't he? Might actually put off colonization if he discovers essentially 'useless' land...
I think Portugal is very unlikely, simply because Columbus was proposing to find the Indies... they already knew the route to the Indies/Orient was around Africa. England is a definite possibility, although Henry VII was very tightfisted about his money. Not to mention, if Columbus sets sail from a more northerly climate, he'll make landfall around OTL Canada and such, won't he? Might actually put off colonization if he discovers essentially 'useless' land...
Maybe he can sail for Ireland (Why not?!). Ireland-wank results if he finds the Caribbean.
France is possible, IMO. But the Italian states dominated the land trade to the east anyway (my history teacher says so). Why would they care?
France is possible, IMO. But the Italian states dominated the land trade to the east anyway (my history teacher says so). Why would they care?
How about because Ireland was partially under English control and partially ruled by a few hundred Gaelic chieftans? Also, it would be Hibernowank.
I know that he went to Portugal twice, and that his proposal was shot down twice, first because the king's advisors claimed that Columbus's esimated distance was too long. The second time it was rejected because the had the route around Africa. But then if Portugal had accepted, would their empire still be based around trade, or would they have gone through a conquest phase?
I think that Henry actually agreed to Columbus's plan, but by the time he heard about it, Columbus was already in the court of Spain.
I guess that makes sense about the Italian states, their interests were more east.
I had thought about France, were they interested in exploration at this time? How about one of the HRE states, or a scandinavian country?
I think that Henry actually agreed to Columbus's plan, but by the time he heard about it, Columbus was already in the court of Spain.
I guess that makes sense about the Italian states, their interests were more east.
I had thought about France, were they interested in exploration at this time? How about one of the HRE states, or a scandinavian country?
How about because Ireland was partially under English control and partially ruled by a few hundred Gaelic chieftans? Also, it would be Hibernowank.
And why couldn't some Gaelic chieftains pool enough money for 2 or 3 ships?
Oh, c'mon. That's like Werner Von Braun escaping Germany in 1945 and offering to build rockets for the Mexican space program.
OK, maybe you're right. I just feel like thinking about Hibernowank, because no one else did.
I wouldn't mind seeing a colonizing Ireland but I'm pretty sure the late 15th century is the wrong time to for that to happen.
Also, so what about my idea of Columbus sailing under the standard of the equivalent of a (multinational?) corporation of the day, perhaps a large trade company? If Venice or Genoa's governments are not interested, perhaps one of their local businesses might...
Also, so what about my idea of Columbus sailing under the standard of the equivalent of a (multinational?) corporation of the day, perhaps a large trade company? If Venice or Genoa's governments are not interested, perhaps one of their local businesses might...
One of the Italian banking families, perhaps? They would, by default, be kings if they did that. He could use that as a sales pitch!
Probably. Could they provide the cash for larger follow up expeditions? Unlikely.
Other Chieftains could throw in some money if they find out about the Aztecs somehow...
Endless gold.
Most would be far too busy spending money on troops to fight the king of the next valley over, or raiding into the Pale, or both. Alright, maybe a Ri of one of the provinces, say Connacht, could probably afford to do something, if he felt secure enough from attack or rebellion in the short term in order to attempt to gain a longterm advantage. A strong enough Ard Ri would be able to do so, I believe, but why would Cristoforo travel to Ireland when he could just go to England or France? Honestly, he'd probably have to be rejected by every other monarch and high muck-a-muck in Europe to head to Ireland.
At this point, it's really far too late for a plausible Hibernowank, England's too entrenched in Ireland, and the Irish are far too divided. Earlier, under Brian Boru or Edward Bruce, maybe, but those run into problems as well.
Yeah, this used to be my whole schtick. I grew out of it.
Okay that would make a pulpy pop AH (Stirling, Turtledove) scenario which is cool but unrealistic. And as far as pulp goes, it would be more 'realistic' to see St. Brendan preaching to the Mayans because Columbus going all the way to cold Eire to talk to some half-civilized cannibals (reference to Ruled Britannia, NOT RACIST) because he couldn't find anyone to fund his explorations is just kinda silly. Like a Histeria! sketch.
I am more interested in England or Portugal, who both actually were realistic alternative canidates. How would each of these nations go about colonizing and what would the effects be on future colonization? Would we see England or Portugal building a huge Empire like Spain did, then falling into mediocracy, or would they go about it in a completely different fashion? What would the world look like to day if Christopher Columbus had discovered the new world for England or Portugal?
Well, then he's obviously stuck in the Caribbean.
His crew isn't particularly large enough to have a massive impact on the Caribbean by themselves, and eventually they will piss off too many Caribs or Arawaks and get slaughtered.
The Portuguese will get credit for discovering the Americas when Cabral lands in Brazil.
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His crew isn't particularly large enough to have a massive impact on the Caribbean by themselves, and eventually they will piss off too many Caribs or Arawaks and get slaughtered.
The Portuguese will get credit for discovering the Americas when Cabral lands in Brazil.
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