What if coffee is discovered during antiquity?

[Richard V]

How would you cool It un the middle of the desert?

Same as a jug of water, keep it in the shade. I'm not talking about an ice cold beverage, just a drink to cool off in the heat.

Of course if you simply must have a cold beverage, you would store the container under ground, or in a pool of water, or pour water over your jug and fan if needed, or encased in wet sand such as the pot-in-pot refrigerator.

 

[clem attlee]

What if coffee was discovered during antiquity? In OTL, nobody really knows who first discovered coffee, but it seems to be during the 8th -10th centuries. There's a legend suggesting an Ethiopian goat farmer noticed his herd getting restless after eating certain red berries. So he takes the berries to a local priest. The priest tries them and stays awake all night. The next day we have coffee.

So what would happen if coffee was discovered earlier. During antiquity. Say, for the sake of our discussion, the discovery happens between 500 Before Counter and 100 Before Counter, during the proto-aksum kingdoms. The discovery could be either from a goat farmer like the OTL legend, or because an inquisitive child gets hyperactive after eating the pretty red berries. However you like.

The discoverers realize the potential and begin selling coffee to Egypt and Arabia. How would ancient Egyptians and early Nabateans take to this new spice? Would coffee be a drink for the elite, or a method of keeping slaves and workers awake? How would coffee's perception change in this scenario? Would coffee be a drink for the lower status, while tea from trade with ancient China and India remains a drink for the nobility and super-wealthy?

Romans on caffeine! The mind boggles.

 

[Donald Reaver]

Coffee shops in England were meeting points for early political debate, perhaps the same in Rome. Silk was an expensive loss of wealth to the East, here with Ethiopia being closer being annexed is likely.

 

[DominusNovus]

Coffee shops in England were meeting points for early political debate, perhaps the same in Rome. Silk was an expensive loss of wealth to the East, here with Ethiopia being closer being annexed is likely.

Silk was not a loss of wealth. Silk was a loss of gold.

 

[Jon the Numbat]

I just had a thought, what if coffee was invented as a cold brew beverage from the start? Alot of people that try coffee for the first time can't get over the bitterness, but cold brewing is inherently sweet as it does not extract the bitter and acidic flavor. It's summer right now and I can easily imagine people in Ethiopia and Yemen would appreciate a cool drink.

How would you cool It un the middle of the desert?

There existed various means of cooling off dwellings and storage spaces such as windcatchers, qanats and yakhchals. Wind catchers were known since the days of Ancient Egypt and qanats rose to prominence in Iran after 500 BCE. These structures could find use in cooling potential coffee beverages to frigid temperatures in conjunction with other functions. I don't know the likelihood of someone getting the inspiration for this, but the potential is there if customary Persian desserts like faloodeh are anything to go by.

 

[leopard9]

So what is the military impact on the first army to discover the stimulant effects of coffee? Has it been quantified how much better a cup of coffee improves alertness and reflexes? And would coffee become a controlled drink in certain countries because of its possible associations with the military and conspirators?

 

[Clandango]

So what is the military impact on the first army to discover the stimulant effects of coffee? Has it been quantified how much better a cup of coffee improves alertness and reflexes? And would coffee become a controlled drink in certain countries because of its possible associations with the military and conspirators?

I think there is one thing we need to keep in mind for the Romans (not that you mentioned them but others have). To my (limited) knowledge theough most of its history members of the Roman army were to pay for their armor, tents, clothes, weapons, food, medical treatment, funerals... While perhaps making it back in war booty or by getting the honor of settling in some backwater surrounded by angry locals after a decade of forced service. Who will pay for this? If it is rare, then it is likely to be kept by those with deep purses, perhaps being used as a hangover cure or by tradesmen needing to wake earlier. For the military people are not going to be able to march a couple extra hours just because they got stimulants that helped in the morning. They still need sleep. Might be useful for watchmen, though. I also think bakers would be the main users of the drink, if the prices were reasonable.

 

[clem attlee]

I think there is one thing we need to keep in mind for the Romans (not that you mentioned them but others have). To my (limited) knowledge theough most of its history members of the Roman army were to pay for their armor, tents, clothes, weapons, food, medical treatment, funerals... While perhaps making it back in war booty or by getting the honor of settling in some backwater surrounded by angry locals after a decade of forced service. Who will pay for this? If it is rare, then it is likely to be kept by those with deep purses, perhaps being used as a hangover cure or by tradesmen needing to wake earlier. For the military people are not going to be able to march a couple extra hours just because they got stimulants that helped in the morning. They still need sleep. Might be useful for watchmen, though. I also think bakers would be the main users of the drink, if the prices were reasonable.

Actually, it was I who mentioned the Romans. It was a joke about them already being very aggressive without coffee. I'm a professor of Roman history by day btw.

 

[Isaac Beach]

THE COFFEE MUST FLOW

Y'know I was running low on map ideas. Thanks for the inspiration.

 

[Indicus]

I could see it play a role like bitter oranges in the Middle Ages - a medicine with somewhat dubious claims to healing.

 

[Clandango]

Actually, it was I who mentioned the Romans. It was a joke about them already being very aggressive without coffee. I'm a professor of Roman history by day btw.

Perhaps you can enlighten me then on how long the practice of conscripting Roman citizens and having them pay for all supplies went on for. Honestly curious as to just how pervasive that was, or if it was just an early remnant from when they might be considered militia focused in Latium.

 

[clem attlee]

Perhaps you can enlighten me then on how long the practice of conscripting Roman citizens and having them pay for all supplies went on for. Honestly curious as to just how pervasive that was, or if it was just an early remnant from when they might be considered militia focused in Latium.

I think that that practice dates from the early and middle Republic. C. Marius abolished it and began the practice of the state providing weapons and equipment to penniless conscripts in the last decade of the 2nd century BC. It had become necessary because of the severe crisis in military recruitment, itself a consequence of the severe socio-economic crisis that beset small farmers by the middle of that century. Thereafter the army was professional, but rootless. I don't remember whether Adrian Goldsworthy, The Complete Roman Army, covers the Republic as well as the Empire, but, if so, you might try there for more answers. My own expertise lies in the High Empire, rather later.

SC.

 

[mudhead]

There's also coffea liberica, native to West Africa. problem: it needs temperatures of at least 32F, with the best option being areas where temperature is between 65-80F. it likes humidity.

A lot of the Phillipines coffee is this variety, and some in Indonesia. it's more akin to robusta than to arabica, so hardier than the latter.

So, what were the trade links between West Africa and the Med during antiquity?

 

[riggerrob]

To cool water in the desert: wrap your ceramic amphora in burlap. Moisten the burlap with water. Hang it in a shaded, breeze area.

 

[Carl Schwamberger]

Coffee shops in England were meeting points for early political debate, perhaps the same in Rome. ...

The London Coffee shops were also a place bank clerks met to swap bank drafts they were carrying to each others banks. Thus turning a day of struggling through Londons streets into a few hours in the coffee house. This led to formal clearing houses & then to a centralized banking system.