What if Christianity had stuck with Anointment instead of adopting Baptism as the rite of intiation?

Zachariah

Banned
Interesting fact- Jesus didn't actually baptise anyone. That's what his contemporary, John the Baptist, did. Instead, Jesus initiated all of his followers, and had his disciples initiate his followers in his name, by anointing them with oil which the disciplines carried in pitchers- and we know the composition of that holy anointing oil, as described in the original Hebrew version of the recipe in Exodus (30:22-23). It contained over six pounds of 'kaneh-bosem', a substance which has been identified by respected etymologists, linguists, anthropologists, botanists and other researchers as cannabis; extracted into about six quarts of olive oil, along with a variety of other fragrant herbs. So then, what if, instead of adopting John the Baptist's method of initiation after Jesus' death, Christianity had retained its original method, and had continued to initiate people by anointing them with the holy weed/olive oil mixture as Jesus himself did? Would Christianity have been more or less successful? Would the early persecution of Christianity in the Roman Empire have more closely resembled the war on drugs? And how much more widespread and socially acceptable might the use of cannabis be? Might the use of cannabis be even more restricted and taboo ITTL than IOTL due to its greater ritual importance and significance?
 
It seems that Jesus' disciples would baptize new converts while Jesus was still alive, so Jesus would have had to instruct them to anoint people rather than baptize them. And not to mention, the Pentecost was considered a baptism, not by water, but with the Holy Spirit, so Jesus not baptizing his followers seems more of a theological quirk (to make him seem more holy) than because it was unique to John the Baptist.

The references to anointing people with oil I can find are about anointing the sick, so it seems it was a medicinal balm of some kind, not actually an initiation. The Pentecostal church does anoint with oil, though, though it doesn't look like they use cannabis. If there was any future controversy over drugs being in the oil, I'm sure some churches at least would use a substitute, as many churches substitute wine with grape juice.
 
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Deleted member 97083

Instead of persecuting Christianity, the Roman Empire sponsors it to increase the price of olive oil in the eastern Mediterranean and thus, the profits of the Italian latifundia.

(OK, probably not. But maybe. But probably not.)
 
Baptism is psychologically and (from a communicant's point of view) spiritually different from annointment of any kind. If this thread survives I will come back and go into more detail. I can state categorically that such a POD of practice in the Christian Church from the early period lands a giant butterfly on Western Civ, with many theological conflicts erased and much crucial organizational development simplified. Too bad it wouldn't be Christianity anymore.
 
Well, the rite of confirmation in the Catholic Church uses oil- in a few of the Eastern churches in communion with Rome, like the Ukrainian Catholics, this is done at the same time as baptism. Make that more common, perhaps?
 
Baptism is psychologically and (from a communicant's point of view) spiritually different from annointment of any kind. If this thread survives I will come back and go into more detail. I can state categorically that such a POD of practice in the Christian Church from the early period lands a giant butterfly on Western Civ, with many theological conflicts erased and much crucial organizational development simplified. Too bad it wouldn't be Christianity anymore.

Maybe this could develop as a Montanist practice? Like, it would still be Christianity, but the oil could be a substitute for Baptism until the person is to be baptized on their deathbed?
 
Interesting fact- Jesus didn't actually baptise anyone. That's what his contemporary, John the Baptist, did. Instead, Jesus initiated all of his followers, and had his disciples initiate his followers in his name, by anointing them with oil which the disciplines carried in pitchers- and we know the composition of that holy anointing oil, as described in the original Hebrew version of the recipe in Exodus (30:22-23). It contained over six pounds of 'kaneh-bosem', a substance which has been identified by respected etymologists, linguists, anthropologists, botanists and other researchers as cannabis; extracted into about six quarts of olive oil, along with a variety of other fragrant herbs. So then, what if, instead of adopting John the Baptist's method of initiation after Jesus' death, Christianity had retained its original method, and had continued to initiate people by anointing them with the holy weed/olive oil mixture as Jesus himself did? Would Christianity have been more or less successful? Would the early persecution of Christianity in the Roman Empire have more closely resembled the war on drugs? And how much more widespread and socially acceptable might the use of cannabis be? Might the use of cannabis be even more restricted and taboo ITTL than IOTL due to its greater ritual importance and significance?
As has been mentioned above while Jesus did not baptize people his disciples did during his earthly lifetime. I have yet to see any evidence that Jesus ever personally anointed anyone although it was once again a practice of his disciples (mentioned in the book of James) for healing. The only references to anointing that I recall in the Gospels is Jesus being annotated by others. The oil used was Spikenard. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nardostachys_jatamansi. This has nothing to do with cannabis. Could you please give some citations for your unique claims?
 
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Oh my. It is reasonable to find a POD that eliminates baptism from Christianity, though such a POD makes Christianity a MUCH different religion. It is much less reasonable to find a POD that demotes baptism to a theologically arguable end-of-life ceremony or a mere matter of choice. What are you aiming for as exactly as you can describe?
 
I suppose it'd make it less accessible to gentiles and the poor, since baptism could be done anywhere, but oils with specific ingredients would be harder to get.

As Christianity expands, I guess the requirements could be relaxed (look at baptism - first it was only full immersion in lake/river and only of adults, then they accepted basins, then baptism of teens became a thing, then children, and immersion got thrown out, replaced by a teeny bit of water on the baby's head).

A similar thing could happen to the oil. Lavender was also known as nard (to the Greeks) so as spikenard oil travels to Rome/Greece, it could get replaced with it.

What other oils have been used as herbal remedies or as a part of burial rites (spikenard was used for both)?
 
Baptism signifies the repentance of the individual for transgressions contrary to the laws of God and also signifies the community's election of that individual into the community as a full member with rights and responsibilities.

Annointing represents the exercise and choice of God (through a representative) to bless, heal, or exalt an individual already deemed worthy of such a spiritual gift with no direct responsibility placed upon the individual, with ONE exception. The annointing of a king, while not removed, can later be overwritten by the annointing of a replacement or rival.

Baptism and annointing can be used together without contradiction as separate spiritual gifts.

The baptism practices of Jesus are manifested most boldly in the Pentecost event where the Apostles were baptized with fire directly by the Holy Spirit, in line with the prediction of John the Baptist.

Baptism emphasizes the individuals assent and responsibility toward their own salvation, which is why the Protestant churches decided to oppose infant baptism, judging infants incapable of assent, the Catholic Church arguing back for the importance of community and the need for people to acknowledge the dreadful importance of the problem of Original Sin.

Annointing is a nice and proper thing but it don't get the job done. A hand-cranked egg beater is fine, and it resembles a bicycle in many respects, but it won't get you to work.
 
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