What if China opened up far earlier than it did IRL? POD: 1450

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World in 1412

Let us assume that for whatever reason, ASB, a crazed dream, or some prophecy, the Chinese decide to open up and advance far more quickly than it did in real life. That isn't saying that it didn't advance quickly in real life, but assume that it advanced faster. What would the world look like? Open to discussion, though I'm doing a timeline as well. Timeline and map.

If this is in the wrong place, let me know. Map is from Chinese perspective, taken from one of the fine blank maps here. Lord Sanders, I believe.
 
I think the most likely way for this would be an earlier industrial revolution forcing the Ming to expand maritime commerce. In Britain the IR was in part triggered by advancement in textile technology, notably the Flying Shuttle and Spinning Jenny devices which drove up demand for cotton.

If similar devices were invented in China around this period you could see similar pressure for cotton. The demand would compete against food crop and force traders to buy cotton from India.

There could also be demand for other imports such as Manila hemp, Gutta Percha (a type of hard rubber), Indies spices, sulfur and salt from Java, or tin from the Malay peninsula. Basically South and Southeast Asia have a lot of potential commodities that were not developed in the 15th century.
 
The thing is, China has always held a condescending attitude towards foreigners. Look at the Qing Dynasty and British envoys there. The Emperors of Ming and Annam, Zheng He's Expedition, and Korea. It's a bit strange, really.

The overall uncompetitive atmosphere of East Asia, in which China essentially dominated, contributed to the stagnation. However, had China taken a more interventionist stance in international affairs, such as raising troops to attack Japan and crush Manchuria or whatever, maybe there would be an Imperial China that stretches down to the heart of India today. Perhaps.
 
The problem is that China really never focused on conquest of foreigners except under the Mongols (which really aren't Chinese). China could definitely have been a colonial mega-power, but for some reason they always stop after consolidating China proper. The closest thing that they do to a conquest is bullying countries into giving yearly tributes. Just like with Korea and Assam, this leaves a pretty autonomous country with its own rules, culture, and government.

So if the whole of China decides to suddenly, for some unknown reason, decide to conquer the world, they would have done it. But it'll be difficult make this realistic and non-asb.
 
The thing is, China has always held a condescending attitude towards foreigners. Look at the Qing Dynasty and British envoys there. The Emperors of Ming and Annam, Zheng He's Expedition, and Korea. It's a bit strange, really.

The overall uncompetitive atmosphere of East Asia, in which China essentially dominated, contributed to the stagnation. However, had China taken a more interventionist stance in international affairs, such as raising troops to attack Japan and crush Manchuria or whatever, maybe there would be an Imperial China that stretches down to the heart of India today. Perhaps.

Err, no. Look at the Tang dynasty. When a Muslim envoy refuse to bow before the emperor, the emperor simply said that cultures in different place are different, and I can accpet his actions.
 
Err, no. Look at the Tang dynasty. When a Muslim envoy refuse to bow before the emperor, the emperor simply said that cultures in different place are different, and I can accpet his actions.
This is before or after Talas?
 
The problem is that China really never focused on conquest of foreigners except under the Mongols (which really aren't Chinese). China could definitely have been a colonial mega-power, but for some reason they always stop after consolidating China proper. The closest thing that they do to a conquest is bullying countries into giving yearly tributes. Just like with Korea and Assam, this leaves a pretty autonomous country with its own rules, culture, and government.

So if the whole of China decides to suddenly, for some unknown reason, decide to conquer the world, they would have done it. But it'll be difficult make this realistic and non-asb.

Err... That's sort of a tautology. The Chinese conquered lots of non-chinese places, Sinified them, now they're called south China. And Taiwan. If they conquered e.g. the Phillippines and then stopped, they'd probably Sinify the place. Heck, they half-Sinified Japan without even sending an army!
 

Typo

Banned
Not to mention the entirety of what is western China today, China's western borders today is actually very close to where Talas was
 
Err, no. Look at the Tang dynasty. When a Muslim envoy refuse to bow before the emperor, the emperor simply said that cultures in different place are different, and I can accpet his actions.

But despite his saying, China viewed itself as the center of the world, and all other peoples had to pay tribute to their supposed "superiors." That seems a tad condescending, in my opinion.
 
I think the most likely way for this would be an earlier industrial revolution forcing the Ming to expand maritime commerce. In Britain the IR was in part triggered by advancement in textile technology, notably the Flying Shuttle and Spinning Jenny devices which drove up demand for cotton.

If similar devices were invented in China around this period you could see similar pressure for cotton. The demand would compete against food crop and force traders to buy cotton from India.

The problem I see: How can India possibly produce the amount of cotton China would need for industrialization?
 
The problem I see: How can India possibly produce the amount of cotton China would need for industrialization?

India produced enough cotton to industrialize half the world. The other half was supplied by USA. China IOTL was in fact a major importer of Indian cotton, though it also had cotton production of its own. Considering the food shortages China had historically, and the relative agricultural surplus India enjoyed (more productive land), it seems a natural partnership.

A PDF file on 18th century India China cotton trade:

http://www.lse.ac.uk/collections/economicHistory/GEHN/GEHNPDF/PADUABowen.pdf
 
I've said this before, but the most plausible date for Chinese industrial revolution a la Britain or colonial empire a la Holland is the late 12th to early 13th century during the apogee of the Southern Song dynasty. Almost all of the ingredients were there at least for a colonial empire and maybe even for an Industrial Revolution: Highly monetized economy; sophisticated naval and industrial technology; advanced financial system; overcrowded urban conditions and continuing rural migration into cities; motivated middle class; state and mercantile demand for overseas trade and expansion; and so on. Historians even today debate whether the S Song might have achieved Industrial Revolution if the Mongols did not invade. So if the S Song dynasty had survived the Mongol assault, south China was compact and rich, but not too populous or rich, to spur colonial expansion and perhaps more.
 
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