What if Bush Assasinated

[TechRat]

The Great Divide, political mountains and molehills.

the is the first time ever that a SITTTING US President has been protrayed in an assination, and it's dispictible. NO ONE ever suggested killing Clinton. We didn't like the guy cuz he Perjured himself, cheated on his wife, was an inafective President, and a blowhard. All GWB did was win an election, and you guys (i mean liberals that haven't come out and said this is wrong) want to shoot him....disgusting.....

The movie is disturbing to me, in a couple of ways.
1) Makes things far more difficult to debate things in a calm rational manner; not that it is easy to begin with in the first place.
2) I never claim to be a saint (they are too boring anyways ), but I try to be a compationate person. (Hate seeing someone hurt, I try to help if I can); The movie exposses my dark side; I support assination, as a last resort; if and when all peaceful means to remove him or her from office fail.

As for Slick Willy, he should of admitted he had sex (Lucky bastard!) Even presidents are human, and make mistakes. He needs help, (and so do I )
The rightwing nuts sure did a whole lot of attacks on him; Some fair, some not. But they were smart not to blurt out what they really want to do to him.
(I am sure some were thinking of putting a bullet in him, but they kept their mouth shut , on that subject.)

Lying about sex and lying about war are both wrong; but the effects of the latter is far more disruptive then a personal (and I thought private; Opps, forgot the White House is not so private - What sane person wants to be President and live in a frustrating fishbowl? ) matter.

As for shooting GWB, I agree that its plain wrong; for now. But I reserve the right to buy the bullets for the shooter(s) ( don't have a gun, nor want one) IF he, or someone like him, steps over the line, and declears himself President-For-Life. (Grr, try giving the Shrub the benifit of doubt, but I despise him too much)

This reminds me of the novel "The Fourth K" by Mario Puzo. (1990) Set during the fictional Presidency of Francis Xavier Kennedy, a nephew of John F. Kennedy, Robert Kennedy and Edward Kennedy. There is a cool plot twist near the end for those who like conspiracy theories. (or what I remember of this sub-par novel- Mario Puzo said of the Fourth K: “The Fourth K was a [commercial] failure - but it was my most ambitious book." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fourth_K )

I will provide a spoilor for those who want one. (As soon as I figure out how to hide it in the text.)

 

[MerryPrankster]

Clinton lied about wars too--he made it sound like Slobo had rounded up the entire Albanian populace of Kosovo and was going to eject them all from the region, making them "a homeless people." Not to mention the endless talk of "mass graves."

The mass expulsion did happen, AFTER THE WAR BEGAN. Considering that Slobo dumped them where he did (Albania and Macedonia) with the goal of destabilizing NATO's forward bases, one could make the argument that it would not have happened had the NATO bombings not occurred (although Slobo bears the responsibility for doing the deed, and the consequent human suffering).

Not to mention IIRC they found only two mass graves, one full of Albanians and the other a mix of Albanians and Serbs. Hardly proof of an ongoing Holocaust (or mass killings of men and boys that, to the credit of the pro-interventionist types, did go on in Bosnia).

I doubt Bush is going to declare himself Emperor, President-for-Life, whatever. Seems too decent and nice to actually do that. If you want a machiavellian politico, try Cheney or some of the creepier neocons. Thing is, I bet they're not that dumb.

 

[Leo Caesius]

The rightwing nuts sure did a whole lot of attacks on him; Some fair, some not. But they were smart not to blurt out what they really want to do to him.
(I am sure some were thinking of putting a bullet in him, but they kept their mouth shut , on that subject.)

Well, let's see, there were Johnnie Wise, Jack Abbott Grebe Jr., Oliver Dean Emigh (neo-Confederates who planned to shoot Clinton with an HIV-tipped dart), and Francisco Martin Duran (who actually fired an SKS semi-automatic rifle 29 times at the White House and cited Rush Limbaugh as one of his chief inspirations).

Note also that Republican pundit Ann Coulter has assassination jokes as part of her standard lineup. "There was one time I had a shot at Clinton. I thought 'Ann, that's not going to help your career.'" In her book High Crimes and Misdemeanors: The Case against Bill Clinton, she wrote that "the only relevant debate" over the Monica Lewinski affair was "whether to impeach Clinton or assassinate him." She also said that the only regret she had about the OK City Bombing was that Timothy McVeigh didn't decide to take out the New York Times building first, and that someone "should put rat poison in Justice Stevens' crème brûlée." I realize that she probably thinks this is humorous, but in a sense that almost makes it worse than this film.

 

[MerryPrankster]

Well, let's see, there were Johnnie Wise, Jack Abbott Grebe Jr., Oliver Dean Emigh (neo-Confederates who planned to shoot Clinton with an HIV-tipped dart), and Francisco Martin Duran (who actually fired an SKS semi-automatic rifle 29 times at the White House and cited Rush Limbaugh as one of his chief inspirations).

Note also that Republican pundit Ann Coulter has assassination jokes as part of her standard lineup. "There was one time I had a shot at Clinton. I thought 'Ann, that's not going to help your career.'" In her book High Crimes and Misdemeanors: The Case against Bill Clinton, she wrote that "the only relevant debate" over the Monica Lewinski affair was "whether to impeach Clinton or assassinate him." She also said that the only regret she had about the OK City Bombing was that Timothy McVeigh didn't decide to take out the New York Times building first, and that someone "should put rat poison in Justice Stevens' crème brûlée." I realize that she probably thinks this is humorous, but in a sense that almost makes it worse than this film.

I don't think Ann Coulter was being entirely serious. I think she just enjoys shocking people.

I've never heard of any of these things. How far did they actually get?

 

[Leo Caesius]

I don't think Ann Coulter was being entirely serious. I think she just enjoys shocking people.

I've never heard of any of these things. How far did they actually get?

As I say in my post (the last sentence), I don't think she's being serious either.

The first three guys were arrested in Texas, far away from Clinton. Duran, as I mentioned, actually sprayed the facade of the White House with bullets when he saw someone who looked like Clinton standing on the lawn. There were, of course, several assassination attempts on Clinton's life at the hand of radical Islamists, as well (Ramzi Yousef, for one). Bush, by contrast, has had it fairly easy, it seems.

My point is not that anyone was successful at assassinating Clinton (obviously), but the claim that the makers of this film are somehow less dignified than American rightwing nutcases (because rightwing nutcases somehow find the concept of assassinating a sitting president unmentionable, as TechRat suggests) is false. Indeed, some rightwingers consider the concept of assassinating a sitting president to be good humor.

That being the case, I don't really see what's wrong with a film with this premise, so long as it is done tastefully. After all, it is not as if public speculation on the assassination of a sitting president is unprecedented.

 

[Faeelin]

You know, we have plenty of movies where terrorists blow up major cities without a complaint.

Why are those okay, but the death of one man is horrific?

 

[TechRat]

Wars and my memory suck

Clinton lied about wars too--he made it sound like Slobo had rounded up the entire Albanian populace of Kosovo and was going to eject them all from the region, making them "a homeless people." Not to mention the endless talk of "mass graves."

The mass expulsion did happen, AFTER THE WAR BEGAN. Considering that Slobo dumped them where he did (Albania and Macedonia) with the goal of destabilizing NATO's forward bases, one could make the argument that it would not have happened had the NATO bombings not occurred (although Slobo bears the responsibility for doing the deed, and the consequent human suffering).

Not to mention IIRC they found only two mass graves, one full of Albanians and the other a mix of Albanians and Serbs. Hardly proof of an ongoing Holocaust (or mass killings of men and boys that, to the credit of the pro-interventionist types, did go on in Bosnia).

I doubt Bush is going to declare himself Emperor, President-for-Life, whatever. Seems too decent and nice to actually do that. If you want a machiavellian politico, try Cheney or some of the creepier neocons. Thing is, I bet they're not that dumb.

Gah, forgot about that horrable mess in the Balkans. There were days when I wish the Cold War was still on. (Still do at times) The Russian Bear kept it's paw on the lid of that boiling pot of hate. (*Sighs* Why can't we all get along? We are running out of time while we fling eggs at each other in this deterating basket)

I agree with you(for the most part) that Bush is too decient and nice to do that sort of thing. As for creepy neocons, I'll take that bet, and this is one time I don't mind losing. Smart people sometimes do dumb things.

*Slips over to the Dark Side*
I can see the advantage of seizing total control, especially in chaotic times.
Someone has to provide strong leadership during a crisis; Its afterwards, when it becomes problematic.
(Ancient Rome is one of my favorite eras in history.)

 

[TechRat]

You know, we have plenty of movies where terrorists blow up major cities without a complaint.

Why are those okay, but the death of one man is horrific?

"A single death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic."
Joseph Stalin

You can't really connect with a crowd, but you can with a person or two.

 

[CalBear]

Gah, forgot about that horrable mess in the Balkans. There were days when I wish the Cold War was still on. (Still do at times) The Russian Bear kept it's paw on the lid of that boiling pot of hate. (*Sighs* Why can't we all get along? We are running out of time while we fling eggs at each other in this deterating basket)

I agree with you(for the most part) that Bush is too decient and nice to do that sort of thing. As for creepy neocons, I'll take that bet, and this is one time I don't mind losing. Smart people sometimes do dumb things.

*Slips over to the Dark Side*
I can see the advantage of seizing total control, especially in chaotic times.
Someone has to provide strong leadership during a crisis; Its afterwards, when it becomes problematic.
(Ancient Rome is one of my favorite eras in history.)

There is something to be said for having one bunch of bastards to keep an eye on instead of a couple dozen of them. That fact notwithstanding I am hugely relieved that the Cold War, and the threat of MAD, is gone (since I have one primary and at least three different secondary targets within fifteen miles of where I am typing this).

As far as the neocons, or the Administration, or any other group preventing or canceling the 2008 elections, that is nothing more than the far left's paranoia. Those elements seem to have never gotten past the 2000 election, where they lost, in their view, a rigged state of Florida (ignoring the fact that if Gore had carried either his own HOME state or Clinton's home state, Floridia would not have mattered).

 

[Grimm Reaper]

CalBear, nor should we forget several thousand servicemen overseas whose ballots were thrown out by the Democrats, in violation of the law.

Bush is killed? Cheney is president...

Leo! RUN!!! Get to Doctor What's apartment! I'll hold them off!​

 

[WhatIsAUserName]

Bush is killed? Cheney is president...

Why is it that the people who can make a bigger difference in high office never really run? I mean, look at Powell, Rove, Rumsfeld, or even Cheney. It's just me and my opinion, but a Rumsfeld administration would make our current War on Terrorism look like a child's birthday party.

 

[Ian the Admin]

the is the first time ever that a SITTTING US President has been protrayed in an assination, and it's dispictible. NO ONE ever suggested killing Clinton. We didn't like the guy cuz he Perjured himself, cheated on his wife, was an inafective President, and a blowhard. All GWB did was win an election, and you guys (i mean liberals that haven't come out and said this is wrong) want to shoot him....disgusting.....

Come on, this thread has been trolled once already, don't do it again.

 

[marl_d]

Ian, i wasn't trolling, i was posting my thoughts, maybe a little harshly, but not trolling.


anyway, just because a few rightwing nut jobs threaten Pres. Clinton, doesn't mean that the majority of us on the right wanted him dead, out of office, yes, dead, no. as for Ann Coulter, she isn't a Republican pundit, she's a very far right conserivative (probably more so than Hannity or Limbaugh) that says some stupid stuff....my point about the movie was that if anyone had made such a movie about Clinton, all the Republicans would have come out and condemed it, where with this one, NOT ONE DEMOCRAT has.

 

[Archangel Michael]

anyway, just because a few rightwing nut jobs threaten Pres. Clinton, doesn't mean that the majority of us on the right wanted him dead, out of office, yes, dead, no. as for Ann Coulter, she isn't a Republican pundit, she's a very far right conserivative (probably more so than Hannity or Limbaugh) that says some stupid stuff....my point about the movie was that if anyone had made such a movie about Clinton, all the Republicans would have come out and condemed it, where with this one, NOT ONE DEMOCRAT has.

Yes it is in bad taste, but I believe it falls under a little something called the First Amendemnet, something Republicans have forgotten about in recent years.

Seriously, if docudrama about Clinton being assassinated came out during his presidency, I wouldn't have cared. I garuntee you that if this docudrama had come out after Bush lef the Oval Office, the Republicans wouldn't have made such a big deal about it.

 

[Faeelin]

"A single death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic."
Joseph Stalin

You can't really connect with a crowd, but you can with a person or two.

It's probably a bad sign when you're using Stalin in an argument.

If it is okay to talk about the deaths of millions of people, then it is okay to talk about assassinating a president, since the former are far more important.

 

[Faeelin]

my point about the movie was that if anyone had made such a movie about Clinton, all the Republicans would have come out and condemed it, where with this one, NOT ONE DEMOCRAT has.

Where's your evidence for this?

And you've yet to say why this should be condemned.

 

[Othniel]

That doesn't answer my question.

If it is okay to talk about the deaths of millions of people, then it is okay to talk about assassinating a president, since the former are far more important.

The difference is the identity of the victum is known. The name has a face...

Its like someone killing a person your realated to, or a friend, or even an aquaitance.

Its also special because the death seems to have more meaning. It was done for a purpose, while often times genocide seems like pointless murder, a task done by those that are heartless. Each death making the others seem less important, just anouther corpse in a pile of men that deserved death with their first murder. Mass murder has a way of devalueing a human life because the reason those people died isn't unquie, and serves a purpose that is death itself.

 

[Ian the Admin]

Ian, i wasn't trolling, i was posting my thoughts, maybe a little harshly, but not trolling.

Horseshit. First you said that liberals have no reason whatsoever for opposing Bush. At this point in his presidency I think anyone in the reality-based community would recognize that as a troll in the classic sense - knowingly making a statement with such a combination of ridiculous falsehood and ideological provocation as to beg for flames.

But that wasn't enough, no, you had to say that all liberals who haven't explicitly condemned a movie showing the assassination of Bush (and I'm quite willing to bet, not a movie *advocating* the assassination of Bush), "want to shoot him".

Incidentally, you therefore also accused me of wanting to shoot the President of the United States. That is not an accusation that I take kindly to.

All GWB did was win an election, and you guys (i mean liberals that haven't come out and said this is wrong) want to shoot him....disgusting.....

my point about the movie was that if anyone had made such a movie about Clinton, all the Republicans would have come out and condemed it

You must be living in a really, really different TL from the one I'm living in.

 

[marl_d]

first off Ian, i'm sorry if i came accross as trolling, it wasn't intentinal, secondly, i was refering more to the Democrat leadership, than any individiual on this board, and i ddin't mean to offend anyone. third, the only reason you think i'm trolling is cuz it goes aginst your own opinions, and i NEVER attacked you personally. that said

i've never said you can't have reasons for disliking his policies, I don't like all of them, No Child Left Behind, DHS, the Drug coverage plan, just to name a few, and those are LEGIT reasons to dislike his Presidency, but MOST Libs hate him because he won the 2000 election in the electoral college but didn't get the popular vote NOT because of his policies.

This movie should be condemed for the LACK of Respect toward the OFFICE of President, not for the individual IN the office. and shows really poor taste for those that made the movie and those lacking the backbone to say so IMHO. and this is by the same guy that is making a movie about Tony Blair and him being on trial for an "illegal war in Iraq" if that doesn't show the bias on the film makers part, then i don't know what does.

Just as he and those that have the same philosophy as him, are intitled to your opinions, i am intitled to disagree with them, and THAT is what makes this Country Great. Welcome to America

 

[Archangel Michael]

Yeah, the guy is really biases towards conservatives and liberals.