What if Bismarck/Prussia made no concessions over Luxembourg and Limburg in 1867?

raharris1973

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Would this have led to a war with France? Who would have won? If prussia won, could the 2nd Reich possess garrisons in Luxembourg and Limburg as well as or instead of Alsace- Lorraine ? To what later consequence?
 
Prussia after the war with Austria in 1866 would most likely win any engagement against the badly supplied and organized French Army.
It might not be a "Lets invade France, take Paris, crown our emperor in Versailles" Esque kind of war finished in one year, but the Prussian army at this point was clearly the strongest in all of Europe. Just look at how bad Austria fared against them in 1866 and France in 1870-71
 
Would this have led to a war with France? Who would have won? If prussia won, could the 2nd Reich possess garrisons in Luxembourg and Limburg as well as or instead of Alsace- Lorraine ? To what later consequence?
Nah napoleon el pequeno might try something stupid before backing down, he knew he have zero business in german affair just try to do 'flag waiving' after his distrasous choices during the decade, he might bark but back down quickly.
 
Why would Bismarck want Limburg? It will annoy the Netherlands for no good purpose.

Luxemburg at least has the virtue of being an obviously distinct piece of land you can claim to hold inside an alliance like the confederations.
 

raharris1973

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Limburg was in the Confederation too, and may have had had a fortress with an authorized Prussian garrison. At any rate, it had been in the Confederation from at least 1830, so any defense of Confederation territory is a move popular to nationalistic German opinion.

I don't think the Prussians will win that one. It will be either a french victory or a draw.

Why? Super weapons for France? I forget if all the troops were back from Mexico by the time the Benedetti Treaty was proposed. That may have been important or might have been a fairly small portion of the force.
 
Why? Super weapons for France?

No, just Prussia not yet having implemented the lessons of the Austro-Prussian war while the French are at the same level as OTL 1870 (because their OTL reform was bvlocked by politics).

Basically, a Franco Prussian war in 1867 would be the 1866 Prussian army vs the 1870 French one, and the 1866 Prussian army was very much not as good as the 1870 one.
 
Prussia after the war with Austria in 1866 would most likely win any engagement against the badly supplied and organized French Army.
It might not be a "Lets invade France, take Paris, crown our emperor in Versailles" Esque kind of war finished in one year, but the Prussian army at this point was clearly the strongest in all of Europe. Just look at how bad Austria fared against them in 1866 and France in 1870-71

AT that point EVERYBODY was beating the AUstrians. And the Prussian victory was far from crushing and mostly a matter of luck (one army arriving just in the nick of time). Unlike the 1870 war were the French armies were crushed. The Prussian army made huge progress Between 1866 and 1870, in organisation, logistics, command and training, by applying the lessons they learned in 1866 and corecting the problems they found in their system.
 
Why would Bismarck want Limburg? It will annoy the Netherlands for no good purpose.
Agreed.the Netherlands considered Limburg as a core part of its territory. If Prussia starts claiming it, it will anger the Netherlands and probably push them towards France. It is far better for Prussia to have a friendly nation to the west, than another enemy and a piece of territory that is not realy that important.
 
Anybody want to consider how the UK will react to such an aggressive Prussia? When it comes to Continental Europe the British often have a soft spot for the little guy (Belguim, Portugal, Netherlands, Greece, Poland) and of course we know they hate to see hegemony and will spend loads of cash on maintaining a balance of power between multiple nations (a divided Europe is less likely to mess with their colonial interests and role as merchant marine to the world)
 
Agreed.the Netherlands considered Limburg as a core part of its territory. If Prussia starts claiming it, it will anger the Netherlands and probably push them towards France. It is far better for Prussia to have a friendly nation to the west, than another enemy and a piece of territory that is not realy that important.
They gotta keep it or otherwise Denmark would have its highest point higher than the Netherlands without Limburg!
 
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