What if Bismarck died in 1866?
- Thread starter Inkarri
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The death of Bismarck in 1866 would certainly prevent German Unification. Wilhelm Hohenzollern, the King of Prussia was more cautious and less ambitious then Bismarck, he didn't necessarily want to Unite Germany as a whole, In fact he pressured Bismarck to not go to war with France. Assuming this is before the Austro-Prussian war, then the Seven Weeks' war never happens. This means that, European field tactics wouldn't really improve from Tight line formations into dispersed and more mobile formations, this could carry on until the 1890s or 1910s, but this means that France still stays as the 'primary' european force, however would be a lot wealthier and more industrialized in this OTL.
But depends, when he died? that might not be enough to stop the wars(Austria would start that snowball themselves too) and Wilhelm the First was even more romantical than bismarck, he did want to take territory from the Austrians(ie the Bohemia lands, getting the old Kingdom of Bohemia back to the germans) but Bismarck opposed to annexations
Bismarck die in 1866
Make a map of europe from 1867 on this ucronia. Luxembourg would be annexed to France through a purchase, something that did not happen due to the interference of Bismarck. The green is Prussia.
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I doubt it, if anything without A-P war, there not luxemburg annexation, heck, without bismarck Wilhelm I and Leopold Sigmaringen(remember him?, the Hohenzollern used their catholic cousins as prime minister before bismark) might pull a watch at rheim here
Bismarck apparently started up the thing (or it happened during his time in office) where the Prussians got the Capriv Strip (and access to a river), claims to most of the coast of Tanganyika, plus the island of Helgioland, all in exchange for claims to Zanzibar where the Germans already had no land, claims, or influence. Bismarck then slandered Caprivi about it, to make it seem like Caprivi did it and that it was a bad deal. Anyone know how much influence or work Bismarck actually had in this? And what is more, did he really make a difference when it came to colonies? The Germans ended up with quite a few colonies, but those came about partially due to German business interests in the areas pushing for it. Much like what happened with the French, British, and Dutch.
To circle around Saxony perhaps, to prevent the Austrians from supporting their independence. Really, I can’t see how the Prussians would be able to annex Bohemia nor for Austria to keep itself from collapsing if they lose the oldest kingdom in their dynasty. As it was poste on Ucronia, I assume it may be a rather old map, from back before butterflies such were taken into account.
Now, I know the map is not the best, but how much of it should we take as fact? Are you seeing Schleswig and Holstein as not being annexed by the Prussians here, but instead getting one of the non-rulers who had claims to it?
And France wouldn't have allowed that anyway. However, Wilhelm *could* have had the Eger Valley plus maybe Karlsbad and Reichenburg (which from the sources I've read is all that he really wanted anyway) in return for taking slightly less in North Germany.
1870 may not change all that much. If the Hohenzollern candidature still goes ahead, in all likelihood the French will still blunder into war anyway, Bismarck or no Bismarck.
kham_coc
Banned
If the prussians are annexing all of Bohemia, why would they stop there?
Otl the reason to not do it was to avoid too many Catholics and Austrian winding up in Germany, if they are going that far, why aren't they just going Ein volk, Ein reich, ein Kaiser?
Which tbh might be a consequence of no bismarck, as if I recall correctly, he was pretty clearly in favor of a klein Germany as opposed to a grosse Germany.
As I said, I don’t see it as possible for the Prussians to annex Bohemia.
kham_coc
Banned
Lack of ability is certainly a viable argument, my point is if Austria collapses to that degree, (however implausible) and the prussians can extend those sorts of terms, why stop with that?
It's the middle ground that makes no sense, either nothing or only very little (as otl) or whole hog and all of Austria gets annexed.
In that case though, you would not get a surrender from the Habsburgs. Though I suppose it might depend upon if we are having Austria be out under the King of Prussia as provinces or if they are made member states.
The Hohenzollern hated the Habsburg is pretty telling that Wilhelm II was the one was more friendly to them, the rest considered them rival and a different kind of German, Bohemia was the personal prize of Wilhelm I for a reason... that was the Habsburg old hre electoral seat, once loss, they're officially out of Germany
Could we have a source for that?
He and his Army officers would certainly have liked some border areas, but I've never seen any suggestion that he wanted all of Bohemia.
I remember talking with Susano and Beer about it, seems the source might be in german but people tends to underestimate Willy I during the timeframe and that he and bismarck have different goals at the time but seems Bismarck always come on top a lot of time it seems, seems Bismark wanted to have natural borders 'without enemies' but the whole 1870 crisis and the fear of Baden and Wutterburg was the one pushed the annexation of Eltass Lothringen
If Bismarck had died before the hegemony of Prussia instead of Austria in the German world, then it is possible that Prussia would have remained second after Austria. The German Empire would not have been created, therefore there would not have been another great empire with world interests. It is possible that England, France or Russia would start a world war, and everything would be much bloodier, and the war would be truly "world war", and would be waged on all continents (except Australia) with equal force, which would lead to a much greater disaster.