In OTL, bicycles (originally called velocipedes) were invented in the 19th century. What if they were originally invented and popularised a couple of centuries earlier, pre-industrial-revolution?
What if bicycles were invented centuries earlier?
- Thread starter ColeMercury
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You might want to look at this thread as well :
https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=249131
https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=249131
I don't understand it too well, but when I asked my cousin (a mechanical engineer), he said that bikes have a good deal of advanced technology in them. You need to be able to consistently manufacture high-quality ball-bearings, sprockets, and pneumatic tires to make them available for wide-adoption.
To quote the Genocide:
Essentially, developing the bicycle earlier requires a whole host of sped-up development which would have huge butterflies. It's not a simple or a small POD.
Cheers,
Ganesha
To quote the Genocide:
Wikipedia said:
Essentially, developing the bicycle earlier requires a whole host of sped-up development which would have huge butterflies. It's not a simple or a small POD.
Cheers,
Ganesha
amphibulous
Banned
Don't forget the chains - a bicycle chain has to be light, very precisely engineered, and to last for quite a time while exposed to grit, mud, rain, etc. When you're ready to build decent bicycles, you're ready to build cars and biplanes - it's no accident that the Wright brothers had the background that they did.
That's correct - getting bicycles that people will use for transport takes a lot of engineering. It's not hard to understand why:
- Human powered devices have to be very efficient, because they are limited by said power
- Bicycles only have an impact when people who can't afford a horse can have one, so you've got to be able to make them at quite a low price
Max Sinister
Banned
What kind of bicycle are we talking about at all? The "dandy horse" was invented in Germany of 1817 and doesn't look like it would use sophisticated technology.
In this case, the problem was different: Karl Drais invented it as a replacement for horses, since they're obviously much cheaper. Some conservative people didn't want all the poorer people have the means to move faster - and Drais was a Democrat. Quite soon, his "draisines" were outlawed.
In this case, the problem was different: Karl Drais invented it as a replacement for horses, since they're obviously much cheaper. Some conservative people didn't want all the poorer people have the means to move faster - and Drais was a Democrat. Quite soon, his "draisines" were outlawed.
As others have pointed out, bikes are actually high tech, or were when they became poular. Bearings are bad, chains are really nasty. If you dont have chains, you end up with penny farthing bicycles which are too difficult to use for common use.
Wire spokes for the wheels are also a lot tougher to make than youd think.
Without those various innovations, which just werent available until about when bikes appeared iotl, you COULD build a bike .. but it wouldnt give you any advantages, and would still be very expensive.
Also. Smooth roads help a lot.
Wire spokes for the wheels are also a lot tougher to make than youd think.
Without those various innovations, which just werent available until about when bikes appeared iotl, you COULD build a bike .. but it wouldnt give you any advantages, and would still be very expensive.
Also. Smooth roads help a lot.
Without chain drive you have to keep increasing the size of the wheel that the peddles are attached to in order to increase efficiency. You either end up with a much slower bike than the ones we normally use, or a 'high-wheeler', with enormous front wheel that makes it fast, but means you have to be an athlete to ride one.
Without some of the other improvements like pneumatic tires, you end up with a 'bone-shaker', like some of the early historical bikes (early 1870s). Boneshakers were briefly popular, but went out of style like a hula-hoop because riding one on roads they had back then for any length of time was painful.
Bikes were actually a technology driver in their heyday, forcing the pace of quite a few advances that were later taken over by cars and planes.
While doing research for a magazine article, I came across a newspaper report of a bicycle club jaunt through rural Maine in the late 1800s. The complaints about muddy roads and ill-kept dirt lanes led to a lot of highway improvement, including the spread of macadam roads on main highways and in towns and cities and well-built, properly drained gravel roads in rural areas.
no doubt, but things don't get invented perfect, most of the time its a gradual process of refinement and improvement.
The first planes weren't performance monsters either, and look what we have nowadays. A bicycle like that would point them in the right direction, and slowly evolve to get better and better.
The first planes weren't performance monsters either, and look what we have nowadays. A bicycle like that would point them in the right direction, and slowly evolve to get better and better.
I have to point out that a lot of bicycles today aren't used as personal transportation, but as a kind of hand-cart, for carrying goods. Obviously, if someone gets the idea to use bicycles in such a way, then a lot of these concerns are alleviated (you're pushing from the outside, so you don't need a chain drive or what not; the "ride" doesn't actually matter since no one is riding on it; etc.)
Of course, then you have to figure out why someone would use these instead of hand-carts, which is a tricky question...
Of course, then you have to figure out why someone would use these instead of hand-carts, which is a tricky question...
amphibulous
Banned
There is a difference between "not perfect" and "not tolerable."
People persisted with aircraft because they could see a very rapid path to usefulness - IC engines were developing because of cars, and that and some test flying and tweaking was all you really needed. This would not have been the case with Early Bicycles! The technology required was developing very slowly, and there is no way that people would buy enough un-rideable and overpriced bikes to give it the needed boost - people would have to buy huge quantities of junk for decades or centuries.
In the "schlachtenbildersaal" of the Austrian Ministry of Finance there is a picture (either Battle of Turin or BElgrad both early 17hundreds) where you can actually see a messenger riding a bike.
Unfortunately thats only a trick - some restaurator put that into the picture much later
Unfortunately thats only a trick - some restaurator put that into the picture much later
A tricycle could have been built much earlier. The kids would have loved it. A cranked front wheel of wood and iron band, riding on bronze bushings lubricated with tallow or whale oil, same with the steering head. Sprung seat of goose feathers upholstered in rich Corinthian leather. Brightly colored silk streamers hanging from the hand grips. Goblet holder in front of the steering head. A pair of wooden wheels, an iron axle, and a bit of framework. What's the first civilization that could have built it?
But it's not a bicycle.
But it's not a bicycle.
amphibulous
Banned
So you have a tricycle that costs as much as a pony, weighs a ton, shakes like crazy because it doesn't have rubber tyres... which the kids can ride where? Decent roads are in short supply and mostly covered in dangerous traffic and horse manure. You can do this, but it's hard to say why you would want to - it won't useful as transport and certainly won't be fun.
Crude tricycles might find a use with military messenger services, especially in areas that have trouble with horses being shot/fired at. In some cultures people were cheaper to replace than horses anyway. This might lead to a drive to improve roads, bridges, and other transportation infrastructure earlier. Communication and trade would improve simply by other people being able to use the roads. A Caroliginian (spelling?) Empire with near Roman-quality roads might have led to a further development in their Renaissance, with interesting butterflies as a result.
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It's already been mentioned earlier, nevertheless it's an important point: the roads matter. A mud path is hell to go through on bike - and even more so on tricycle and yet more so if the thing you're riding is a lot heavier than modern bikes. Paved roads are better - but never try to ride a bike without modern air-filled wheels on cobbled stone!
That said, I can see a wider usage in dryer and hotter countries where any dust road is good for bicycles.
pff now i have this vision of a roman legionnaire on a kids tricycle
As you wish, so shall it be.