What If Benedict Arnold never changed sides .

[Somedevil]

It's been a while for Benedict Arnold What IF.

So what if he never changed sides. My little change is simply he does not marry the loyalest Peggy Shippen best way is Arnold is not wounded at the Battle of Saratoga or the wound is even less then he had in OTL so he can stay in the field and does not need a desk job.

So what does that change beside this time line there is no battle of Groton Heights and the Burning of New London in September of 1781 since that was fully a plan of Arnold's. Without being disgraced does he get into politics post war or does he just become a even bigger footnote in history without changing sides?

 

[mspence]

You'd probably have to keep him out of the Army altogether, maybe keep him in merchant shipping. If he stays loyal then I think he becomes a relatively forgotten figure, especially if he follows Gates' orders during the Battle of Saratoga. He had a ego and didn't play well with others. He probably goes back into the merchant business as he did OTL, but still gets into petty fights that damage his reputation.

 

[Slime_blob]

It's been a while for Benedict Arnold What IF.

So what if he never changed sides. My little change is simply he does not marry the loyalest Peggy Shippen best way is Arnold is not wounded at the Battle of Saratoga or the wound is even less then he had in OTL so he can stay in the field and does not need a desk job.

So what does that change beside this time line there is no battle of Groton Heights and the Burning of New London in September of 1781 since that was fully a plan of Arnold's. Without being disgraced does he get into politics post war or does he just become a even bigger footnote in history without changing sides?

Main reason why he betryaed USA because he was not treated good and didn't get promotions and becomes poor because of his spending and him personally paying hjs troops bc congress doesn't wanna or can't afford

 

[Slime_blob]

If he does stay loyal, technically he was popular with the troops.

He can just coup like congress and install himslef dictator president for life. Abolish the confederation instead place a centralist system. Which can either cause a civil war or just the states surrender to his order. If congress continue their shenanigans and pick up a fight with him.


On the flip side US's best general of the revolution doesn't flip side.probabably more bolder strategy.

If couped congress and becomes dictator president also centralist USA then he can

Raise alot more money for the continental army and war effort. Knowing that many troops were disgruntled about their horrible treatment, lack of pay etc etc, a coup is very much possible.

If not, just pressure Washington to like force congress to do whatever he wants like promotions pay also tolerate his corrupt dealings like what they did to most officers etc etc.

Post war presidential material. Either ala en marche to the presidential palace and congress ala coup de ta. Or just win the election

 

[Elfwine]

Assuming, for discussion's sake, Arnold isn't drawn to rethink his loyalties for any other reason - he's quite possibly sent down South to replace Gates in 1780 rather than Nathaniel Greene. I'm not sure he'd do as good a job as Greene did, if I had to make a guess. He's at least probably more aggressive/battle seeking than Greene was.

So changes from there. What happens post-war probably depends on how his wartime career ends - Arnold might go into politics, he might go back to business, he might do a lot of things.

Pretty sure trying a military coup or trying to pressure Washington (who is very unlikely to take it lying down) would not end well.

 

[Somedevil]

It be interesting if he is sent south instead of Green where would Green most likely get sent then?

 

[Valentinian]

I think if Arnold was not wounded Washington would bring him to his army. There, you have Arnold potentially winning more glory at Monmouth, then playing a role at Yorktown. I wonder what an Arnold with more laurels does during the Newburg Conspiracy. I wonder if an Arnold-Hamilton alliance tries to ride the whirlwind. They could overthrow Congress together and then hand power to Washington in a fait accompli.

 

[Somedevil]

Main reason why he betryaed USA because he was not treated good and didn't get promotions and becomes poor because of his spending and him personally paying hjs troops bc congress doesn't wanna or can't afford

That is a big part . So where i live in like twenty miles from where he grew up etc and the Town that his troops masacured the local Militia across the river from the city that his troops burned down. So this time of year there is a "Trial" Held for him and some other things.

 

[Elfwine]

It be interesting if he is sent south instead of Green where would Green most likely get sent then?

Probably stay with the main/northern army. Maybe he gets West Point, if he's not given a field command.

Edited to add: Greene had been the quartermaster general, I do not see him being happy to not get a field command if Arnold is going South - but we would have to see what's going on.

 

[Somedevil]

I think if Arnold was not wounded Washington would bring him to his army. There, you have Arnold potentially winning more glory at Monmouth, then playing a role at Yorktown. I wonder what an Arnold with more laurels does during the Newburg Conspiracy. I wonder if an Arnold-Hamilton alliance tries to ride the whirlwind. They could overthrow Congress together and then hand power to Washington in a fait accompli.

That was what I was thinking that Arnold would of joined Washingtons Staff or had a field command under him. The last part would been interesting. One thing is for sure i feel he would of had at least one local high school named after him instead of being the scurge of his hometown

 

[Valentinian]

If you eliminated the part about the Newburg Conspiracy, after the war, Arnold could be given command of one of the Western Expeditions instead of Harmar, St. Clair or Wayne. If Arnold goes west and wins, he could be made governor of the Northwest Territory. That could lead to a lot of towns and counties named for him.

 

[Wendell]

If you eliminated the part about the Newburg Conspiracy, after the war, Arnold could be given command of one of the Western Expeditions instead of Harmar, St. Clair or Wayne. If Arnold goes west and wins, he could be made governor of the Northwest Territory. That could lead to a lot of towns and counties named for him.

And that might be his best shot at becoming president, possibly after a stint as Ohio's first governor.

 

[Valentinian]

I am curious which party he would be. If he stayed loyal, my guess is he becomes a Federalist like his mentor Washington.

The Federalist territorial governor of Ohio was Arthur St.Clair. St. Clair was so hated by Ohio that 200 years later, I learned about how St.Clair was the devil in 7th grade Ohio history class. It wouldn't take much for Arnold to be more liked.

Arnold was a businessman too. Have him do a few lucrative land speculations, and he could be a wealthy man. Put that money into some pro-Arnold newspapers. Combine that with some good governance, and Arnold could help create a self-made, common man Federalism on the frontier. Who knows where that could go.

 

[Wendell]

Alternatively, perhaps he's governor of Connecticut after the war, participates in the Constitutional Convention, and ends up VP under Washington and then succeeds him as President of the United States.

 

[Valentinian]

The problem with Connecticut is that it is such a small state. However, with Arnold's outsized personality, and being the #2-3 hero of the revolution, he might be able to pull it off.

If he stayed in Connecticut, he might have a better path as a Republican. I think an Arnold-Burr alliance to counter the Richmond Junto is a very intriguing idea.

 

[Wendell]

The problem with Connecticut is that it is such a small state. However, with Arnold's outsized personality, and being the #2-3 hero of the revolution, he might be able to pull it off.

If he stayed in Connecticut, he might have a better path as a Republican. I think an Arnold-Burr alliance to counter the Richmond Junto is a very intriguing idea.

Maybe. So, Arnold might be elected as the DR candidate in 1796 due to the party being stronger in New England?

 

[Valentinian]

It could be part of the general swing toward DRs. Arnold can just ride the wave, or stand out and become a national player.

 

[RedSword12]

Benedict Arnold would distinguish himself on the battlefield, but he would perform terribly in politics, and his business career was hardly much better. He'd probably settle in relative obscurity after the war, surviving off his pensions and nursing old grudges, perhaps hated by his neighbors. The man was one of the finest soldiers in the Continental Army, but he was no good at being a citizen in peacetime. He alienated almost everybody around him through his abrasive personality.

 

[Alex Zetsu]

Arnold was put to background and administrative duties by this point. If Congress's war plan goes right, Arnold is not seeing action for the rest of the war, so no more war glories. Of course both sides were pretty bad at predicting what the other side would do anyways!

 

[Workable Goblin]

I think a lot of this speculation is ignoring Arnold's character. As mspence noted, he had a tendency to get into petty fights that damaged his reputation, including after the war. If I think about what is likely to happen if he does stay loyal through the war, it's that he probably tries to exploit his reputation to get success of some kind or another, but through jealousy and obvious ambition rubs people the wrong way and simply doesn't succeed, instead ending up frozen out and unpopular. Somewhat like Aaron Burr, as a matter of fact.