just a word of warning, promoting/ condoning ethnic cleansing is very much frowned upon on this site.
you did that before, with your remark about poland
What if Baltic states, Ukraine and Moldova were pro-russia countries?
- Thread starter Freedom
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just a word of warning, promoting/ condoning ethnic cleansing is very much frowned upon on this site.
you did that before, with your remark about poland
You proved that you really don´t know nothing about history and facts. Small? Third state with highest population of country.
RousseauX
Donor
Right, so again, why are those countries independent on your map then? Why aren't they just part of Russia?
Ask why Ukraine got pro-russia president Viktor Yanukovych?
Why Latvia capital city Riga Mayor is pro-russia Nils Ušakovs?
Both times russians voted them in power. For eample Riga Mayor party got 58.5% votes in pro-europe country but pro-russia mayor got in power. He also won parlament elections but pro-europeans politics left him in opposition.
Both time same answers. If Latvia and Estonia had more russians than their own people, then those countries were not so idependent at all.
What you mean those countries independent? Those are pro-russia countries in alternative history map.
RousseauX
Donor
Ok, I don't think I communicated my question very clearly.
My point was that by calling them pro-Russian countries you made it sound like they were independent, as oppose to just part of russia.
In alternative history i never called those countries very independent. I said something like Belarus and Armenia
RousseauX
Donor
But Belarus and Armenia are independent countries.
My question is, if your logic is that Estonia have a >50% Russian majority because of alt-Stalinist era population transfers, why would they declare independence -at all- then in 1991? Why not just remain part of some sort of Russia?
Uh? Even Belarus is independent even when it´s pro-russia country. Or Azerbaijan, Uzbekistan. Even pro-russia countries declare independence.
Its like you asking why Germany is independence when it belongs in European Union.
RousseauX
Donor
Belarus doesn't have a ethnic Russian majority, in your scenario though, Estonia has something pretty close to a ethnic Russian majority or an outright ethnic Russian majority, in which case it makes no sense for them to want independence of any sort.
but all pro-russia countries are independence. Even when you under soviet union or europe, then still countries were kinda independence but pro-russians.For example Georgian Soviet Socialist Republic. Own country, pro-soviet union but still name "Georgia" because Georgia had own communist goverment which is independence.
takerma
Banned
Ukraine is divided into basically 4 parts around this time. West absolutely HATES russians, east considers itself russia, south doesn't care closer ot east but much more rich and in general not active. Centre and Kyiv in middle but shifting Westwards overtime. So Ukraine can shift one or the other way. OTL Ukraine balanced in the middle till Putin decided to start his irregular invasion.
Baltics native population despises Russians, loathes them completely. Each is unique but after the OMON affair, killing at the TV tower etc. The only way they stay aligned with Russia is local Russians wage a civil war and win. But their number are few and they are not that organized. Without Russian troops they lose.
Poland hates Russians, Polish communists even hate Russia. Without ASB there no way Poland stays aligned with Russia. Perhaps Stalin back in the day exterminates Poles en mass, he would have to outdo himself though.
Current situation in the region is fascinating. I was born in Kyiv and lived there till my teens. Born in interesting times indeed and more interesting times are coming. Putin wants to break NATO, will he succeed we will see! The place of decision will be in the Baltics I think, his irregular war is coming.
Baltics native population despises Russians, loathes them completely. Each is unique but after the OMON affair, killing at the TV tower etc. The only way they stay aligned with Russia is local Russians wage a civil war and win. But their number are few and they are not that organized. Without Russian troops they lose.
Poland hates Russians, Polish communists even hate Russia. Without ASB there no way Poland stays aligned with Russia. Perhaps Stalin back in the day exterminates Poles en mass, he would have to outdo himself though.
Current situation in the region is fascinating. I was born in Kyiv and lived there till my teens. Born in interesting times indeed and more interesting times are coming. Putin wants to break NATO, will he succeed we will see! The place of decision will be in the Baltics I think, his irregular war is coming.
The various Soviets were not at all independent. Decisions were made from Moscow and given to them. Even after Stalin they never got more than a tiny amount of autonomy.
Still free countries can be pro-russia countries without begin under russia
So you are basically saying that if the Baltic States had more Russians they might be more pro-Russian? Well I suppose if you ethnically cleansed them to the point where the inhabitants were all Russians you wouldn't have to worry about the Baltics wanting independence from Russia, maybe.
However, without some large-scale ethnic cleansing the situation you are describing is utterly impossible.
Ethnic cleansing or deportation is not necessary for the Soviet Union to achieve non-Baltic majorities in the Baltic soviet republics, since they all have relatively small populations. They would need to create jobs for lots of non-Baltic personnel, and then the demographics would change in Russian favor.