What if Baltic states, Ukraine and Moldova were pro-russia countries?

Freedom

alternativehistory.png


Timeline:
1)Fall of the Soviet Union (December 1991)

2)Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Ukraine, Moldova and Belarus Parliamentary elections 1992 - Communist Party wins elections(dominate).
Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Ukraine, Moldova and Belarus becomes Pro-Russia countries.

3)Referendum 1995 in Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Ukraine, Belarus and Moldova. Results:
Russian language status - For 85%
Integration with Russia - 80%
Parliament dismissal - 89%

4)Poland Ethic groups - 39% Russians(2015). Poland is not in European Union and not in NATO (2015). Poland rebels wants Poland to join Russia. Happens same situation like right now in Ukraine.



What if Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Ukraine and Moldova had the same fate as in Belarus. Poland is not in european union and not in Nato. Pro-russians in Poland wants Poland to join Russia. There is Russians army in East Poland but Kremlin denies. Russia military grows.

Would Finland and Sweden joined NATO then? Would Europe sanction Russia? What would America do? Mitt Romney would win President Elections in America because he was right about Russia. What Europe should do with Poland? Poland is attacked and yet Russia denies everything. Should NATO go in? Should Europe support Poland?
 

MattII

Somehow I don't see it, a SU that maintains the support of these guys would have to be so drastically different in its treatment of its people that the collapse would be unlikely to happen.
 

Freedom

MattII said:
Somehow I don't see it, a SU that maintains the support of these guys would have to be so drastically different in its treatment of its people that the collapse would be unlikely to happen.
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Well SU would collapse anyway but Russia would kept Russinas in Baltic states, Ukraine and Moldova and because of so many Russians they would voted Communist party and bam, everything changed. I mean look Belarus.
Just right political decision saved Baltic countries but if those countries had Pro-Russians leaders then it would be very different situation.
 
Derek Pullem

Derek Pullem

Donor
Freedom said:
What if Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Ukraine and Moldova had the same fate as in Belarus. Poland is not in european union and not in Nato. Pro-russians in Poland wants Poland to join Russia. There is Russians army in East Poland but Kremlin denies. Russia military grows.

Would Finland and Sweden joined NATO then? Would Europe sanction Russia? What would America do? Mitt Romney would win President Elections in America because he was right about Russia. What Europe should do with Poland? Poland is attacked and yet Russia denies everything. Should NATO go in? Should Europe support Poland?
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The point you are missing is that the Baltic states, Moldova and Ukraine would have chosen to be pro-Russian (and hence would not have broken away presumably) so the West does not interfere.

Poland would be treated as Ukraine and Czech / Slovakia / Hungary and Romania would be taking the role of Poland and the Baltics in out TL.

No war in Europe. Sweden and Finland stay neutral (what is the upside for them antagonizing Russia?)

In my opinion Romney still won't beat Obama because he is not Obama. No one is "right" about Russia in this TL any more than they are in OTL.
 

Ashtagon

What changed in Soviet history that the Baltic states and Ukraine would even consider rejoining with Russia? Historically, the Baltics were pretty PO-ed that they had lost their independence after WWII, especially as it was due to a pact between Stalin (who at this point had been denounced by the Soviets) and Hitler (everybody's bad guy). Ukraine too had Stalin's intentional starvation of the country back in the revolutionary days to drive a rift between it and the communists.
 

Freedom

Derek Pullem said:
The point you are missing is that the Baltic states, Moldova and Ukraine would have chosen to be pro-Russian (and hence would not have broken away presumably) so the West does not interfere.

Poland would be treated as Ukraine and Czech / Slovakia / Hungary and Romania would be taking the role of Poland and the Baltics in out TL.

No war in Europe. Sweden and Finland stay neutral (what is the upside for them antagonizing Russia?)

In my opinion Romney still won't beat Obama because he is not Obama. No one is "right" about Russia in this TL any more than they are in OTL.
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Well almost half finland people support Nato because of Ukraine events... but Ukraine is too far for them... but if it was Poland then you can see how far Russians are gone and this would be big risk for Finland and Sweden. Sweden joins nato when Finland joins NATO. What role those countries would taking?
 
Derek Pullem

Derek Pullem

Donor
Freedom said:
Well almost half finland people support Nato because of Ukraine events... but Ukraine is too far for them... but if it was Poland then you can see how far Russians are gone and this would be big risk for Finland and Sweden. Sweden joins nato when Finland joins NATO. What role those countries would taking?
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Are you saying that Finland and Sweden should be more concerned about Russia than they were about the Soviet Union. If they weren't in NATO at the the time of the USSR why would they consider joining in this scenario?
 

Freedom

Derek Pullem said:
Are you saying that Finland and Sweden should be more concerned about Russia than they were about the Soviet Union. If they weren't in NATO at the the time of the USSR why would they consider joining in this scenario?
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Because they knew that if Soviet Union attacks someone then World War 3 would begin... but now is Cold war over which means that you can attack(like now) without having World War 3. Finland knew that Soviet Union would never attack anyone but not sure about Russia
 

Freedom

Derek Pullem said:
Are you saying that Finland and Sweden should be more concerned about Russia than they were about the Soviet Union. If they weren't in NATO at the the time of the USSR why would they consider joining in this scenario?
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Also Finland had deal with Soviet Union. Soviet Union stopped attacking Finland and made deal with Finland. Trade, no join Nato. After Soviet Union collapse Finland were living in peace and felt that Nato is no longer important.
 
Derek Pullem

Derek Pullem

Donor
Freedom said:
Because they knew that if Soviet Union attacks someone then World War 3 would begin... but now is Cold war over which means that you can attack(like now) without having World War 3. Finland knew that Soviet Union would never attack anyone but not sure about Russia
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Freedom said:
Also Finland had deal with Soviet Union. Soviet Union stopped attacking Finland and made deal with Finland. Trade, no join Nato. After Soviet Union collapse Finland were living in peace and felt that Nato is no longer important.
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But "Russia" isn't attacking - it's a "civil war" in Poland / Ukraine.

Finland and Sweden know that if Russia attacked that Europe would come to their aid through EU and that America would also support them - which is why Russia won't openly attack a European country and also why no NATO membership is needed for Finland or Sweden now or in your TL.

I doubt that Russia would risk a Ukraine style insurgency in Poland in your TL either - far too provocative

Where do you get the 39% of Poles in favour of Russia as well? That sounds so extreme as to be ASB land.
 

thekingsguard

If they were pro-Russia, they'd still be part of Russia. Belarus not withstanding, the places that were pro-Russia didn't secede from the USSR/Russian Federation
 
Driftless

Driftless

Donor
From 1945 on, have the Soviets strongly encourage Russian immigration to the Baltics. Displace the natives under various pretexts to locations where they are decidedly a minority

It worked effectively - if cruelly - in 18th & 19th century US against the Indians.
 

RousseauX

Donor
Freedom said:
4)Poland Ethic groups - 39% Russians(2015). Poland is not in European Union and not in NATO (2015). Poland rebels wants Poland to join Russia. Happens same situation like right now in Ukraine.
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How does this happen? Because today there are something like 10-20,000 Russians in Poland

The only way is if Stalin never shifts the Polish borders westwards so Poland retains the Russian minority it conquered during the 1921 war with the USSR. And that doesn't seem to correspond with your map.
 

wietze

so it is one year ago the russian brutally invaded the Crimea,and since then started their murder campaign in the donbass and you post this kind of shit?
 

Freedom

RousseauX said:
How does this happen? Because today there are something like 10-20,000 Russians in Poland

The only way is if Stalin never shifts the Polish borders westwards so Poland retains the Russian minority it conquered during the 1921 war with the USSR. And that doesn't seem to correspond with your map.
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Well if all those countries were pro-russia then there had more russians for sure. In Soviet Union Stalin could easily killed all Polish people and send russians from Russia to Poland and live in Poland.
Easy.
 
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