What if Austria loses Bohemia and Moravia

What if Austria loses Bohemia and Moravia but keeps Silesia and Lusatia basically having Austria keep its Polish Subjects.


What would be the effects in the History of Europe?


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Don't even know where to start with this. First off, Silesia is part of the crown lands of Bohemia, so if the rest of the region is lost chances are Silesia would be gone as well. Second, Austria never ruled the Franche Comte: that was first part of the Burgundian inheritance (ruled by Philip the Handsome) then part of the Spanish Monarchy. It was lost to France before Austria inherited the Netherlands.

Third, what era are we talking here? The Thirty years' war? The Protestant reformation? Or later in the 18th century? Forth, does Austria still control Hungary or did Buda-Pest brake away as well?

Going by the little amount of info here, I'd say Austria is basically finished as a great power with those losses. However, if this is before the extinction of the Spanish Habsburgs, then we could see the Archduke inherit the Spanish Monarchy without opposition, considering his shrunken realm.
 
Don't even know where to start with this. First off, Silesia is part of the crown lands of Bohemia, so if the rest of the region is lost chances are Silesia would be gone as well. Second, Austria never ruled the Franche Comte: that was first part of the Burgundian inheritance (ruled by Philip the Handsome) then part of the Spanish Monarchy. It was lost to France before Austria inherited the Netherlands.

Third, what era are we talking here? The Thirty years' war? The Protestant reformation? Or later in the 18th century? Forth, does Austria still control Hungary or did Buda-Pest brake away as well?

Going by the little amount of info here, I'd say Austria is basically finished as a great power with those losses. However, if this is before the extinction of the Spanish Habsburgs, then we could see the Archduke inherit the Spanish Monarchy without opposition, considering his shrunken realm.
They Keep Hungary.

Prussia did get Silesia without Getting Bohemia and Moravia in OTL so Austria keeping Lusatia and Silesia is possible - Especially if the Polish Population stays dominant.
 
Austria never held the Netherlands. It was held by the spanish Habsburgs.

Austria never held France Comté. This county was held by the spanish Habsburgs too and officially ceded to France in 1678. And given geography, I wonderful how Austria could conquer it.

The only way to have such a map become real would be to change the share of the inheritance between Charles V of Habsburg and his younger brother Ferdinand.
 
Austria never held the Netherlands. It was held by the spanish Habsburgs.

Austria never held France Comté. This county was held by the spanish Habsburgs too and officially ceded to France in 1678. And given geography, I wonderful how Austria could conquer it.

The only way to have such a map become real would be to change the share of the inheritance between Charles V of Habsburg and his younger brother Ferdinand.

I rephrased the Title of the Topic to Austria losing Bohemia and Moravia, thanks.
 
Austria never held the Netherlands. It was held by the spanish Habsburgs.

Austria never held France Comté. This county was held by the spanish Habsburgs too and officially ceded to France in 1678. And given geography, I wonderful how Austria could conquer it.

The only way to have such a map become real would be to change the share of the inheritance between Charles V of Habsburg and his younger brother Ferdinand.

Actually the Habsburgs did.

Philip the Handsome was the son of Maximilian of Austria. Charles V and Ferdinand were the sons of Philip and thus Maximilian's grandchildren.

Charles and Ferdinand briefly ruled the Austrian hereditary lands jointly, which was not uncommon in the Holy Roman Empire, before after some negotiations (and revisions) Charles finally agreed to cede all (but only) the Austrian hereditary lands to his brother Ferdinand.

I don't see Charles giving up the Burgundian lands to his younger brother Ferdinand at the same time, he agreed in giving him the Austrian hereditary lands, since he (Charles) was a native of that region.
As for the Spanish kingdoms they are way to valuable, so as the eldest son he'll keep those too.

Later the daughter of Charles, Mary, married Ferdinand's eldest son Maximilian II. Charles did contemplate to give the Burgundian lands to them, well to his daughter and his nephew would be co-regent.
That might work, since it it would pass from his branch to the other branch of the dynasty as a dowry.

At the same time, the Spanish Habsburgs will keep the duchy of Milan (I know it had extra value to get to the Burgundian territories over land), which the Austrian Habsburgs also had desired (one obvious reason is the proximity to the Austrian Hereditary Lands).
I don't see the Spanish Habsburgs giving up both, but such a ''trade'', IMHO would have been a good compensation.

Not to mention, that the Austrian branch isn't really in the position to centralize the Burgundian lands forcibly. Which ironically increases their chances to keep the region; at one point during the reformation large parts of Austria and Bohemia were protestant IOTL.

I don wonder, if the Austrian Habsburgs with these ATL Burgundian revenues will be in the position to get on the counter offensive against the Ottomans and regain Hungary sooner ITTL. (To be sure, they won't reach Constinople.)
 
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Yes, for the Habsburgs. But never for the Habsburg holding and ruling Austria.

Philip the handsome died in 1506, that is 13 years before his father. And besides he was only some kind of consort for his dead wife and for his elder child.

One of the way to hav your map would be to have the male branch of the Trastamaras not go extinct. Have prince Juan and his austrian Habsburg wife have a living son. Then Charles V never inherits Castile and Aragon.

But There is a problem in this case : Charles V would obviously marry Mary of Hungary instead of his younger brother Ferdinand doing so. And I still can't figure out how he would lose it.
 
Let's make the proposal Spanish Netherland(Belgium/Burgundy for german) for Bavaria Possible, that give the wittelbasch connection with their franconian and Palatinan Holdings(and maybe expading in rhineland).

Make either the Hohenzollern keep catholic or make Bohemia change to protestanism, they will got for it and kick the hasburg out(Silesia have to damn polish and they not inhert prussia here) as Austria loss the bohemian electoral seat(to hohenzollern) but won the bavarian one and maybe demand hohenzollern give their electoral seat(bradenburg) for the wittelbatch(Burgundy) in exchange recgonition their Bohemian Electoral Seat? that make the dream of Hohenzollen being kings in the HRE a reality and keep them quiet, and we've the wittelbasch as counter weight in the rhineland.

As the Hasburg loss their 'bohemian/checz' suggest but won more germans one and again loss the weight of having to keep an eye in france(that is Wittelbasch work now and the Louis XII to XV will be more warry of them), maybe expand to poland? maybe they inhert prussia and keep expading to become Poland their third crown?
 
@ Matteo: yes, they did (see my previous post), albeit briefly. For a while Charles V (who kept everything else) ruled the Austrian Hereditary Lands together with his younger brother Ferdinand (between 1519 and 1521).
 
Yes. You are right for these 2 years. However, you still don't have a POD that could have him lose It. Your only possibility would be to change something : not having Louis II die at Mohacs in 1526 and have him have male children.
 
The thing about a Polish dominant Silesia is that it would be likely to be kept by Habsburgs instead of Bohemia and Moravia, if anything Bohemia could end up dismantled if the Polish population in Silesia ends up dominant - it has only two fates Silesia is kept by the Habsburgs or ceded to the PLC as a bribe by the Anti-Kings of Bohemia in order to get an ally in the PLC.
 
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