Impossible, Austrians and Italians are complete incapable of projecting that kind of power that far from Europe. Portugal is something I don't know too much about.
Portugal did not take part in the Eight Nations Alliance, which is when the spheres of influence were established, so as such, they get nothing.Impossible, Austrians and Italians are complete incapable of projecting that kind of power that far from Europe. Portugal is something I don't know too much about.
It's a geographical and monetary issue more than anything. Both the Italian and Asutro-Hungarian concessions were in districts of Tianjin. Neither Italy or Austria-Hungary ever controlled a full city sized concession in China. They also had to share the city with the Americans, the British, the French, the Japanese, the Russians, the Belgians and the Germans (so, pretty much all eight members of the alliance). No one would want to give them a sphere of influence because they were all supposed to share the city equally.Why not? Italy was in China till 1943... Austria - Hungary till 1914, both powers had the ability to hold a city in China.
Portugal nope not possible. OTL they had enough difficulty during the height of their power to hold onto macau. There is a reason they couldnt make much inroads into china. Italy impossible, their navy was a joke and they were a med power. How will they project power in china?Impossible, Austrians and Italians are complete incapable of projecting that kind of power that far from Europe. Portugal is something I don't know too much about.
That's not really what the spheres of influence were about at all.Portugal nope not possible. OTL they had enough difficulty during the height of their power to hold onto macau. There is a reason they couldnt make much inroads into china. Italy impossible, their navy was a joke and they were a med power. How will they project power in china?
AH: Err, where is this magical uber-ostreich navy with logistics to transport uber armies to china. Maye if Austria kept Belgium and Netherlands?
Why not? Italy was in China till 1943... Austria - Hungary till 1914, both powers had the ability to hold a city in China.
Isn't Zhejiang is pretty close to Shanghai? Wouldn't that cause some problems if Italy was messing with the British sphere?The Italians actually did make a play for their own territory in, IIRC, 1898-99. After Adowa and the Bava-Beccaris massacre they looked to China for some nice morale boosting, prestige creating, Empire building. They put a demand to China for Sanmen Bay in Zhejiang but bungled it completely and China actually got away with refusing them. From what I've read the Italian government basically decided they should a have a territory in China like Hong Kong and Tsingtao. It was as much for prestige as economic reasons. Zhejang was selected because no other power had claims there (although longterm it would probably cause friction with Japan, especially if they had gone with a southern site like Sansha) and it was a center of silk production which I guess was supposed to produce some kind of synergy with Italian industry somehow. They surveyed the coast and despite there being no strategic or economic importance, and despite there being better ports elsewhere, and despite it requiring massive infrastructure development to make a useful port they selected Sanmen Bay. In a striking gesture of gunboat diplomacy the Italian agent in Beijing dispatched a ship there and sent an ultimatum to Beijing. He may have exceeded his instructions but either way he essentially overplayed the Italian hand and Beijing refused the demand, calling the Italian bluff. Because Italy had no will and little ability to back the demand with force and with the British warning the Italians against aggressive action lest it destabilize the situation in China and damage British commerce they had to backdown.
The gentleman's agreement regarding spheres of influence was worked out after this incident so if somehow the Italians prevailed they could have established Zhejiang as their economic sphere of influence. Though they probably would have done better with Xiangshan or Sansha bay or an exsiting city like Taizhou than with Sanmen.
Austria is also not that difficult. Get rid of Franz Joseph in the early 1850s and Maximilian on the throne. He was very interested in the fleet and the establishment of colonies. The Novara expedition in the late 1850s sponsored by him was mostly to reconnoiter possible colony sites on the way to China (which was downplayed afterwards due to the lost war against Italy and FJs lack of interest). With Max on the throne the French will be less enthusiastic to meddle in Italy, Austria will acquire the Nicobars, which she had a claim on, and will grab their allotment of the Suez channel shares (thus preventing the British from getting their hands on a controlling majority), and in time they will get their own concession in China and a few pieces of other real estate, parts of Borneo perhaps or some of the Spanish islands in the pacific. Even OTL Austria-Hungary had the 9th largest merchant marine in 1914, with less neglect they could easily reach anywhere from 4th to 8th place, as those powers were in a close pack trailing the big 3 (UK, US and Germany).
So supposing that Austria does adopt a policy of 'colonies? yes please!'
Would it be possible to use that coal for their ships?
Any ideas about Chinese concessions Austria might be able to acquire?
But Austria was a part of the Eight-Nation Alliance, wasn't it? Couldn't they have gotten something out of that?