What if Anne Boleyn's third pregnancy was successful?

In OTL, Anne Boleyn had a third pregancy (after giving birth to Elizabeth, and after having a miscarriage in 1534) which resulted in the still birth of a four month old definitely male child in 1535. What if this had not been a still birth, and she had been able to produce the male heir? Arguably, Anne Boleyn was the wife with whom Henry VIII was most happy with. And frankly, if Anne Boleyn had successfully given birth to that damnes male heir that Henry was so looking for, England would have been spared of a lot of misery.

Also, what would be the long term butterflies from the continuing rule of the Tudors?
 
In OTL, Anne Boleyn had a third pregancy (after giving birth to Elizabeth, and after having a miscarriage in 1534) which resulted in the still birth of a four month old definitely male child in 1535. What if this had not been a still birth, and she had been able to produce the male heir? Arguably, Anne Boleyn was the wife with whom Henry VIII was most happy with. And frankly, if Anne Boleyn had successfully given birth to that damnes male heir that Henry was so looking for, England would have been spared of a lot of misery.

Also, what would be the long term butterflies from the continuing rule of the Tudors?

Oh, i would say that they could hardly to better than the first child they had. Anne wouldnt loose her head and the BBC-show Tudors wouldnt be made.

Was Henry happier with Anne than with Jane Seymore that he loved dearly until the day he died according to wikipedia
 
If Anne Boleyn gives birth to a son, she probably saves her head. Henry VIII might not divorce of her, and thus will not end up with his "Bluebeard" reputation because of his six marriages and the execution of two of his wives.

As for Henry VIII and Anne Boleyn's boy, he will ascend the throne after Henry VIII's death. How would the boy have been called by the way? Edward?

[B]Emperor Qianlong[/B] said:
Anne Boleyn was the wife with whom Henry VIII was most happy with.
I thought that the wife Henry VIII was the most happy with was actually Jane Seymour, his third wife and the mother of OTL Edward VI.
 

Thande

Donor
The boy would be called either Edward or Henry, like all of Henry VIII's other sons who died young or were illegitimate.

The effect on the Pilgrimage of Grace would be interesting. Though Anne was unpopular with the English people, part of the motivation for the rebellion in OTL was the way everyone could see the trumped-up charges leading to her execution were faked and it seriously undermined Henry VIII's reputation as being fit to rule.

The question also arises of how this ATL son will be raised and whether he would turn out to be a staunch Protestant like OTL's Edward VI. If not, England might drift naturally back to Catholicism after Henry's death (Anglicanism wasn't even really Protestant until Edward VI got hold of it) and then undergo the same kind of religious wars as France did in OTL, with a significant Protestant minority and a Catholic majority.
 
Oh, i would say that they could hardly to better than the first child they had. Anne wouldnt loose her head and the BBC-show Tudors wouldnt be made.

There's quite a number of possibilities. The most quintessential difference is probably that Henry VIII wouldn't get rid of a wife that evidently could produce sons. Even if that son would have died early, Henry would have known that his wife is capable of giving birth to sons. Therefore, he'd never have executed Anne, and she would might have had influence him subsequently. Well, she had influence on him, in contrast to Jane Seymour, and giving birth to a son would have secured her position beyond belief. That is, after all, is what brought Catherine of Aragon into trouble.

Was Henry happier with Anne than with Jane Seymore that he loved dearly until the day he died according to wikipedia

What do you base that conclusion on that Henry VIII was happier with Jane Seymour than he was with Anne Boleyn? After all, Henry VIII loved Anne Boleyn so much that he patiently waited several years until breaking up with Catherine of Aragon and marrying Anne Boleyn. What made him unhappy was the fact that Anne Boleyn didn't give birth to a son.

One major effect of this would be that Bloody Mary is out of the equation. She wouldn't be high on the priority if there's a son by Anne Boleyn (note: he may even die early). In OTL, Elizabeth was considered a bastard, and hence lower in priority of inheritance than Mary. In the ATL, Mary will be basically out of the equation.
 

Thande

Donor
What do you base that conclusion on that Henry VIII was happier with Jane Seymour than he was with Anne Boleyn?

It's considered pretty incontrovertible in the usual historical record. Which is not to say you can't try a revisionist attitude, but in Tudor circles that's kind of on the level of David Irving claiming the Holocaust never happened.

If you want specific evidence, he was buried clutching a lock of her hair.
 
It's considered pretty incontrovertible in the usual historical record. Which is not to say you can't try a revisionist attitude, but in Tudor circles that's kind of on the level of David Irving claiming the Holocaust never happened.

If you want specific evidence, he was buried clutching a lock of her hair.
I'm also surprised at this contention that Jane Seymour had little influence on him. Sure maybe relative to Anne Boleyn with the protestant stuff, but she had a significant effect on his personal relationships with his family from what I've read.
 
Well, one main point is, Anne Boleyn made Henry VIII declare her first daughter to be a bastard, so I would argue Anne had a fair bit of influence. Plus, I would argue, had Jane Seymour lived longer, in long term she'd probably have bored Henry VIII. :p

Oh, yeah, and Jane Seymour wouldn't have been in the equation in the first place if Henry VIII wouldn't have lost his patience with Anne Boleyn. ;)
 
Anne Boleyn

Mary will be the big loser..I recall Jayne Seymour persuading Henry to bring her back to court. Anne would never have done this, since she disliked Mary and regarded her as a serious rival to Elizabeth. If Anne has further children, including at least one son who survives Henry, I don't see Mary ever becoming queen.
 
Mary will be the big loser..I recall Jayne Seymour persuading Henry to bring her back to court. Anne would never have done this, since she disliked Mary and regarded her as a serious rival to Elizabeth. If Anne has further children, including at least one son who survives Henry, I don't see Mary ever becoming queen.

"Bloody" Mary never becoming queen, of course, would be something that potentially is extremely beneficial for the people of England. They'd be spared of quite a lot of misery.
 
This is a question that I have often wondered about. After all, if Anne had produced a male child, would Henry perhaps have gone back to his Catholic faith?
 
Probably not...I mean that bridge is burned, and with Henry married to Anne I doubt the Pope is gonna really want him back. Though in terms of actual faith nothing much changed Henry broke with Rome but he didn't really break with tradition (apart from divorce and supressing the monastries - which was more than half about half about money anyway). As some one said a few posts ago it was Edward VI (or his advisors) that led to England shifting to the Protestant side of the religious devide.
 

Thande

Donor
This is a question that I have often wondered about. After all, if Anne had produced a male child, would Henry perhaps have gone back to his Catholic faith?
Strictly speaking, Henry never abandoned Catholicism exactly, just the subordination of the English (Catholic) Church to the Pope...in retrospect his England is often portrayed as Protestant, but this really didn't come about until Edward VI's reign, it was a sort of independent Anglo-Catholicism with strong Protestant influence from radicals within.

He won't repudiate his declaration of independence from the Pope because (A) he's Henry VIII and (b) the Pope is still in the pocket of the Spanish and his influence would be bad for English national interests. However, I could easily see this son by Anne Boleyn easily sliding back into the 'ecclesiastical common market' as I've heard it described, not formally repudiating Henry's split with the Pope but just letting things return to status quo by default. It will however depend on how he is raised and who his regent(s) will be.
 
You must also remember that Anne was part of the Reform movement (Protestant) so it is very unlikely that her son would be Catholic. Elizabeth was Protestant though not as much as Edward IV. With Anne still around I could see the Reform movement continuing especially since Cranmer and Cromwell were around for last half pf Henry's reign. A question I have is whether Cromwell would still be executed. He was killed partially for the whole Anne of Cleaves affair.
 
A question I have is whether Cromwell would still be executed. He was killed partially for the whole Anne of Cleaves affair.
I doubt it. Henry regretted it, and a lot of the friction was caused because he didn't like the Six Articles that IMO were essentially Catholic-Lite. I tend to think the Six Articles were a reflection of his own personal belief that maybe too much protestantism might be the cause of his difficulties (Anne's womb issues, Jane's death). If Anne gives Henry a son he is probably going to be a lot more flexible seeing the move to protestantism as being rewarded by God and Cromwell is going to be more on his good side. Combine that with lack of the Cleves debacle and Cromwell might well survive--and so might Cranmer.
 
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