what if America had Annexed all of Mexico after the Mexican-American war

[danwild6]

In short the US ends up keeping it. Slavery would never have been allowed into Mexico in the same way it wasn't allowed into California or anywhere else west of Texas. The war on the ground becomes unconventional. the US army's cavalry arm is expanded rapidly. And a large number of Mexicans are recruited by the occupying army(this happened in OTL).

If the ACW breaks out in 1850 or 1860 is a big deal.

In 1850 the southern economy is stronger but secessionists are a lot weaker in the upper south. Southern cavalry is also more effective without the Minie ball and rifled muskets. The southerners however face a much larger Union army. The south is however cut off from its main artery for supplies(In OTL most supplies came through Mexico)

In 1860 the southern economy is weaker but pro-secessionists are a lot stronger in the upper south. With the responsibility of policing Mexican waters and supporting the US army, the US navy is a lot stronger than OTL at this time. Technology has blunted the Confederacy's main advantage of horse cavalry.

 

[Falecius]

Mexico's population as of 1849 was 6,868,700. By 1850 it had reached 7,485,200.

The US population of 1847 was 21,406,000. By 1850 it was 23,191,900.

This is also going to cause a major freakout because the American population had trouble enough accepting the roughly 1.6 million Catholics who lived in America in 1850 (7%). With the addition of Mexico, that brings the Catholic population to 30%.

Combine that with the fact that in 1850 15.7% of the population was black (3,641,128) and that puts minority groups at around 45% of the total population.

White Protestants are not going to like this.

That is quite a mouthful.
I hardly see most Mexicans being given anything approaching equal rights however.

 

[anamarvelo]

That is quite a mouthful.
I hardly see most Mexicans being given anything approaching equal rights however.

if abraham licoun had not been assasinated they would gain equal rights
his plan for after the war was to give black men the right to vote
when a certain thetor actor heared this he planned to prevent this from happining
since the latinos of mexico are part white it would be alought easeir for the republcians under lincoln to accepte the mexicans as an ecual race.

 

[The Uchronian]

That is quite a mouthful.
I hardly see most Mexicans being given anything approaching equal rights however.

They probably wouldn't, I'd imagine, especially not if the hardcore conservatives(the Southerners in particular) had their way.

 

[eliphas8]

if abraham licoun had not been assasinated they would gain equal rights
his plan for after the war was to give black men the right to vote
when a certain thetor actor heared this he planned to prevent this from happining
since the latinos of mexico are part white it would be alought easeir for the republcians under lincoln to accepte the mexicans as an ecual race.

Why would you even assume there would be Lincoln Presidency in this case? The problem here is that there are so many ways to fuck up ruling over Mexico that its not even funny, the Protestant whites already hated Catholics and natives there are so many ways they would mess up ruling a nation of largely catholic natives (for the most part the people of Mexico even spoke native languages still and there where many Mayan nationalist movements).

 

[Tallest Skil]

What if we'd forced the original negotiation border of the Tropic of Cancer? All that land is far less populated. Slightly more so than Alta California had been, but still sparse enough to settle properly.

Our ambassador was supposed to sign for all land north of the Tropic of Cancer (save for the little bit of Baja California that drops below it; that would have been ours, too), but he went far too easy on them.

 

[Eurofed]

What if we'd forced the original negotiation border of the Tropic of Cancer? All that land is far less populated. Slightly more so than Alta California had been, but still sparse enough to settle properly.

Our ambassador was supposed to sign for all land north of the Tropic of Cancer (save for the little bit of Baja California that drops below it; that would have been ours, too), but he went far too easy on them.

Yup. This, at least, is eminently doable since Northern Mexico was very scarcely populated back then and would be assimilated in the USA with no more trouble than OTL Southwest. Moreover, all it takes as a PoD is the US Ambassador not going rogue as it concerns peace terms.

 

[Snake Featherston]

Yup. This, at least, is eminently doable since Northern Mexico was very scarcely populated back then and would be assimilated in the USA with no more trouble than OTL Southwest. Moreover, all it takes as a PoD is the US Ambassador not going rogue as it concerns peace terms.

By going rogue you mean adhering to the peace terms his President told him to sign, where what President then wanted was not northern Mexico in the sense of the deserts to the north but the whole thing right down to the Central American border, right? If Polk's Ambassador had gotten those terms, there is no Mexican state that continues to exist until the USA shatters under the strain of trying to run all of Mexico when it wasn't even obviously able to run itself (as the subsequent slide into civil war showed) at that time.

 

[Snake Featherston]

What if we'd forced the original negotiation border of the Tropic of Cancer? All that land is far less populated. Slightly more so than Alta California had been, but still sparse enough to settle properly.

Our ambassador was supposed to sign for all land north of the Tropic of Cancer (save for the little bit of Baja California that drops below it; that would have been ours, too), but he went far too easy on them.

No, our ambassador was supposed to sign for the boundaries he signed for. The President got greedy and decided he wanted not the Tropic of Cancer, but the boundary with Belize and Guatemala. This is a curious viewpoint that has no grounding in the reality of what Polk initially wanted and then what he tried to get and failed in that process.

 

[Snake Featherston]

Well, you are right on one thing; many Mexicans were fervently anti-slavery and it's very likely most of them would have been more than a little pissed off if the Southerners tried to force them to accept their 'Institution'.

TBH, I just don't see Mexico being completely annexed right away. In fact, it could possibly take as much as a half a century, maybe even slightly longer, to successfully accomplish this, if the U.S. even gets to that point.

There is one good thing about this, though: if the Wilmot Proviso were to be passed, there would be no way that slavery could spread any further than it already had. And perhaps inter-ethnic relations might actually be helped in the long run, as well, when the U.S. finally gets used to having a significant Mexican minority.

And in this scenario if the USA's gone off the deep end and tried to swallow a country that in land area is a match for 1840s America, then they're pretty much guaranteed to be in an Israel-Palestine on steroids. The South will demand slavery reimposed in Mexico, the North will demand it not be, Mexicans don't care which band of gringoes tries to make them third-class citizens in their own countries and shoot at Americans indiscriminately, and the result overall is a sustained and protracted collapse of the United States from overstretch and a Mexico more dystopian than IOTL.

 

[9 Fanged Hummingbird]

Polk annexes all of Mexico, and then he inherits a brutal race war in Yucatan he can't easily win, created many more insurgencies throughout country almost as large as his own with a large population, and sowed the seeds of a civil war in his own country. Polk then proceeds to go down in history as the worst president ever for being a massive idiot.

 

[Snake Featherston]

Polk annexes all of Mexico, and then he inherits a brutal race war in Yucatan he can't easily win, created many more insurgencies throughout country almost as large as his own with a large population, and sowed the seeds of a civil war in his own country. Polk then proceeds to go down in history as the worst president ever for being a massive idiot.

He might even go down in history as the last president of the United States and the spiritual father of Balkanized North America.

 

[Wolfpaw]

He might even go down in history as the last president of the United States and the spiritual father of Balkanized North America.

Not gonna lie; this thought crossed my mind. Probably one of the better PODs for American Balkanization between the Revolution and the Civil War.

I could also see heavy Mormon colonization in Mexico as a result of this.

 

[eliphas8]

Not gonna lie; this thought crossed my mind. Probably one of the better PODs for American Balkanization between the Revolution and the Civil War.

Woah, thats an awesome idea.

 

[Wolfpaw]

Woah, thats an awesome idea.

"The eagle has impaled itself upon the cactus with a viper in its beak."

 

[history nerd]

Worst-case scenario: (I'd wish to explore this one in a timeline, or possibly go collab on it)
Mexico gets screwed all over the whole deal, due to ol' fashioned Gringo racism and anti-Catholicism. We get an earlier American Civil War, more similar to the Lebanese Civil War, once the pro-Slavery politicians try to have their way into Mexico, with Unionists, Confederates, Yucatán, Mexican Liberals, Mexican Conservatives, Mayans, Sonoran tribes, Apaches, and other tribes duke it out into a massive free-for-all war (and possibly New England attempting secession again, seeing as how the Washington government dragged everyone into another nonsensical war). It will not be nice at all. It will end up in the partition of the United States and Mexico into several countries once the whole dust settles down, everyone hating each other too much to allow a future reunification.

Please, please do that TL! North america with only 3 countries is lame... do we get a deseret as well, and independant texas could be cool!

 

[yourworstnightmare]

Did the US have capacity to occupy such a large area? Somehow I have trouble seeing the US army at the time becoming a successful occupying force in the more populous States of Mexico.

 

[9 Fanged Hummingbird]

Did the US have capacity to occupy such a large area? Somehow I have trouble seeing the US army at the time becoming a successful occupying force in the more populous States of Mexico.

A decently sized contingent of US Marines couldn't beat a bunch of poorly organized Maya rebels armed with machetes and muskets that fired nails. And this is with local troops (who were actually more competent) supporting them. Something tells me this on a larger scale without local support would not end so well for the USA.

 

[Snake Featherston]

Did the US have capacity to occupy such a large area? Somehow I have trouble seeing the US army at the time becoming a successful occupying force in the more populous States of Mexico.

I don't think so, not since the inevitable fighting over reimposing slavery or abolition will simultaneously accelerate and prolong the US Civil War for both sides involved there. Even if that didn't happen, 1840s America has none of the financial, military, logistical, institutional, or cultural precursors for such an over-exaggerated variant of imperialism.

 

[Wolfpaw]

A decently sized contingent of US Marines couldn't beat a bunch of poorly organized Maya rebels armed with machetes and muskets that fired nails. And this is with local troops (who were actually more competent) supporting them. Something tells me this on a larger scale without local support would not end so well for the USA.

Mexico would likely draw OTL's filibusters, only perhaps more so since now US support is explicit. There is going to be some brutal attempts at ethnic cleansing and forest-clearing (especially in the Yucatan) since the filibusters were all gaga for King Cotton.

The populous southern Mexican states will have to be given local autonomy pretty damn fast. I could actually see the US redrawing the borders to create fewer, larger states that gives power to the criollo elite into the State apparatus. The other trick--which the US did in the Philippines--is to create a local constabulary of natives to repress the other natives with a restive, religiously heterodox ethnic minority.

Actually, the Philippines might be a good comparison because--while geographically dissimilar--its population at the time of the US occupation was 7,409,000 and its a heavily Catholic non-white society.