What if America Also took control of the Bahamas in 1783?

The Colony was barely inhabited, let's assume America invades during the war and when the peace treaty comes, gains control of it. How does this affect the Bahamas? Would they remain a territory, be assigned to another state or even become their own state eventually?
 
Quite ASB if you ask me. The Americans barely won on the land, engaging the British in the Caribbean is out of the question imo.
 
Quite ASB if you ask me. The Americans barely won on the land, engaging the British in the Caribbean is out of the question imo.
Eh, not THAT unlikely with Franco-Dutch support. Taking out English sugar islands would be bad for England, but I’m mildly concerned France or Spain might try to take it.

But this would somewhat ‘ameliorate’ the f-s state balance. Also, I could see the Florida’s joining the US directly, or further Ameriwanks in modern day ontario and Nova Scotia, Quebec or Bermuda* if you’re crazy. For the free/slave states, I could see an attempt at making the Upper Peninsula a state (as if that would happen), or maybe splitting Minnesota or Illinois.

EDIT: Replaced Jamaica with Quebec and Bermuda, what I meant in the first place.
 
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I doubt an invasion is possible, but if the people there have enough of a rebellious spirit and petition to join the US I don't see why they couldn't.
 

raharris1973

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Jamaica...nope.

Spain *did* take the Bahamas, so it was Spain's to decide what to do with. Because its proximity, I would not rule out the US getting it if it supplies the infantry for an allied invasion.
 
Was there much sugar grown there? If so, maybe the Brits would offer Ontario in exchange.

If not, US keeps it. Maybe tries to buy Florida from Spain a decade or two earlier.
 
Was there much sugar grown there? If so, maybe the Brits would offer Ontario in exchange.

If not, US keeps it. Maybe tries to buy Florida from Spain a decade or two earlier.

Apparently, there were sugar plantations, although I don't know how extensive they were. That said, their population was a fraction of that of Jamaica, so maybe the British wouldn't see sugar plantations of those size as worth Ontario.
 

Zachariah

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Quite ASB if you ask me. The Americans barely won on the land, engaging the British in the Caribbean is out of the question imo.
But the US Revolutionaries DID successfully launch a naval invasion, and win the Battle of Nassau against the British, in early March 1776. IOTL, they merely occupied the Bahamian capital for a fortnight, and took away all the remaining gunpowder and munitions which had been confiscated from the Province of Virginia and taken there by Lord Dunmore after the conflict broke out, before withdrawing peacefully and returning to Connecticut in early April. But what if they'd garrisoned those captured naval forts, and maintained an occupation force on New Providence instead?

In the immediate aftermath of Esek Hopkin's successful raid/invasion IOTL, the Continental Congress and individual state governors through their legislatures agreed to allow privately owned ships to help in the battle against Britain by issuing letters of marque. These privateer ships were allowed to claim any items found on the British ships they conquered as their own, and were therefore able to pay their seamen and officers nearly twice the amount that the Continental Navy could pay their crews, since the items captured by Continental ships went for the good of the colonies. Which, ironically, severely depleted the manpower of the fledgling American navy. However, this also served as sufficient incentive for thousands of these privateers, overtaking the number of British ships, which immensely helped the American revolutionary war effort at sea.

And of course, Nassau had always been primarily a privateer base. Sixty years previously, it had been declared as a Pirate Republic under Blackbeard's rule. And it was thanks to the wars in the Thirteen Colonies, such as the French and Indian War, and the influx of funding from its primary industry of privateering, that Nassau had experienced its greatest economic boom, with the proceeds enabling a new fort, street lights and over 2300 sumptuous houses to be built, as well as for the mosquito-breeding swamps to be filled in, greatly expanding the city. With the Americans electing to secure their hold over Nassau and the Bahamas ITTL, and issuing their letters of marque in the immediate aftermath (just as they did IOTL), it isn't hard to imagine that practically all of those privateers who operated out of Nassau and were employed by the British IOTL would readily switch their allegiances at the drop of a hat, and direct their efforts to raiding British ships on behalf of the American Revolutionaries instead ITTL. There'd have been higher risks, but also far greater profits to be made.

And as a result, the Bahamas could well end up being a core part of the United States from its inception ITTL; perhaps even a State in its own right. And if they had, there could be other butterflies as well. For instance, after American independence, the British resettled some 7,300 Loyalists with their slaves in the Bahamas, and granted land to the planters to help compensate for losses on the continent. These Loyalists, who included Deveaux, established plantations on several islands and became a political force in the capital; and from this point on, African slaves and their descendants constituted the majority of the population of the Bahamas. But without the Bahamas, where else do those Loyalists go- or stay? Would the British still be prepared to cede both Floridas to the Spanish as part of the Treaty of Paris, or might it refuse to concede one or the other of them? Or would those American Loyalists be resettled to re-establish their slave plantations elsewhere in the Caribbean instead? And if so, where?
 
It is entirely possible for the US to get the Bahamas during the revolution, though more by luck, timing and circumstance than some kind of strategically planned campaign.

In comparison to the rest of the British Caribbean, the Bahamas were probably the least valuable. (depending on if Turks and Caicos island and the related salt trade is included in it.) There was in fact a decent pro-rebel sentiment among the Bahamas and Bermuda populations. (remember this is prior to the loyalist population spike for those islands which occurred after the ARW) Among the main reason for pro-rebel sympathies was their desire for profits via free port type status, and thus wanted more trade with other countries including France and Spain, (basically everyone that had colonies in the Caribbean)

Of they weren't stupid either, and being islands, knew they wouldn't have a real chance at holding out against the British Navy, so didn't go rebel.
The US can (and did) take this islands during the war, but did not have the ability to hold them long term, even if long term control was a goal. (which it wasn't because they couldn't)

As said Spain did take the Bahamas toward the end of the war. France could have easily as well. In fact if France (a formal ally) had taken them instead of Spain (a co-belligerent) France could have given them to the US during the peace, (they didn't have to though the Treaty of Alliance said France got to keep conquests in the Gulf and Caribbean), whether or not they do would depend on how well they captured other more profitable British Caribbean sites. If they do, it would probably be because they had low value and wanted to spite Britain.

If the timing is right though, the US could also take the Bahamas, it just needs to be at the end of the war, such that Britain becomes aware of their capture during the peace negotiations, decide they are not valuable enough to fight for, and lets the US keep them. (even if arguably the British could take them back or may have in fact already taken them back, but the news of re-capture did not make it back in time before the signing.) That's where your lucky timing can come in, and combined with French Naval Support, becomes more probable.
 
The Bahamas would legally be able to become a state. It doesn't matter the small population, since the Bahamas legally has as good a claim on being a state as New York or Massachusetts does at that point. Thus if we have a Constitution and political institutions like today's, then they'll be entitled to their two senators, one representative, and three electoral votes.

There is the issue that the Turks and Caicos were disputed between the Bahamas and Bermuda. The United States will obviously argue for the sake of their state that the Turks and Caicos are rightly Bahamian. It might end up getting sold if the British Empire needs funds, or otherwise exchanged for other disputes. Maybe the US exchanges the islands for Aroostook County? Or for Columbia? Or both even? Depends how influential Bahamian Congressmen are, and they could easily have many other Southern politicians on their side. In any case, the islands will be added to the Bahamas, assuming the British agree to it. Military conquest is out of the question until the 20th century--it's unlikely the US can snag them in the War of 1812, and in that conflict I suspect the Bahamas will fall under British occupation, and same goes for any hypothetical 19th century Anglo-American war.

Realistically, they'd be a slave state, although if there is a Civil War, they might not get the chance to join a rebel government because they have the federal Navy and Marines staring them in the face and almost zero chance of getting support from the mainland. Their historic trajectory would be similar to southern Florida overall, but less of a reliance on citrus and such thanks to the generally poor soil. It would in general draw off development from Florida to some degree, but not that much since it obviously doesn't have railroads connecting it to the rest of the country. But I would imagine as air travel becomes common and the best parts of Florida get filled up, it'll get quite a boom in the second half of the 20th century. You'd see a lot of development that would look like Freeport in OTL.

So in the modern age I can imagine a rapidly growing population of maybe 2-3 million, with demographics similar to Florida--if the Turks and Caicos are included, then maybe 2.5-3.5 million. The population would be much more evenly spread out than the OTL Bahamas I think. The capital would still be Nassau, but it would be somewhat larger than OTL. *Freeport would also be pretty big too, being very close to the mainland. There's probably also be sizable cities on Andros and Inagua (perhaps in the range of 100-200K, or at least their metro areas would be), as well as Providenciales and the three Caicos Islands (maybe 50K-100K). On Grand Bahama, Andros, and Inagua, you'd probably have substantial urban sprawl comparable to Florida. Same goes with Providenciales and whatever settlements spring up on the Caicos Islands.
 
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So just how likely is a trade for Ontario? If the Sugar Plantations of the region truly are worth anything, how much would the Brits be willing to trade to get the back?
 
There is the issue that the Turks and Caicos were disputed between the Bahamas and Bermuda. The United States will obviously argue for the sake of their state that the Turks and Caicos are rightly Bahamian. It might end up getting sold if the British Empire needs funds, or otherwise exchanged for other disputes. Maybe the US exchanges the islands for Aroostook County? Or for Columbia? Or both even?

I like the idea of trading the Turks and Caicos for some other land, but what exactly do you mean by Columbia?
 
I like the idea of trading the Turks and Caicos for some other land, but what exactly do you mean by Columbia?

I'm referring to the Oregon boundary dispute. The United States could settle the dispute over the T&C (assuming it hasn't been settled in the preceeding 50 years) in exchange for a border with Canada/Britain at the Columbia River. Not going to be popular in some circles (i.e. the "54'40 or fight" crowd), but Southerners would probably like it. But how do you convince the North to go along with a proposal which obviously benefits the South? Would have an impact on the leadup to the Civil War.
 
I'm referring to the Oregon boundary dispute. The United States could settle the dispute over the T&C (assuming it hasn't been settled in the preceeding 50 years) in exchange for a border with Canada/Britain at the Columbia River. Not going to be popular in some circles (i.e. the "54'40 or fight" crowd), but Southerners would probably like it. But how do you convince the North to go along with a proposal which obviously benefits the South? Would have an impact on the leadup to the Civil War.

I doubt the Americans would cede claims to Oregon over such islands, the surrender of the Maine district seems much more likely
 
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