What if aluminum smelting is perfected by the 1850s?

PlasmaTorch

Banned
Lets posit a highly improbable scenario. In the 1850s, robert bunsen discovers how to use electrolysis to prepare aluminum. He wants to go further in his research, but is hindered by the lack of suitable sources of electricity. Fortunately, an eccentric millionaire provides bunsen with some high power electric generators, free of charge. In a matter of months, he and other members of the university go on to perfect what might (in our time) have been called the hall-heroult process. They are elated by their success. Soon ater this, however, bunsen learns something incredible: Other scientists have discovered the process for refining bauxite into aluminum oxide. It is only the 1850s, but science has found a practical way to smelt aluminum. What are the consequences of this?


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It's not just the power, electrolysis and tank of molten stuff, but the rather nasty 'flux', without which Alumin(i)um remains a scientific curiosity.

Even now, you really need 'hydropower' at a budget rate.
 

cgomes

Banned
It's not just the power, electrolysis and tank of molten stuff, but the rather nasty 'flux', without which Alumin(i)um remains a scientific curiosity.

Even now, you really need 'hydropower' at a budget rate.
Yeah, you need A LOT of power for alumnium smelting, unless you have geothermal or hydro it's not going to cut it.
 
I think @cgomes have some good point So let's make a attempt at this with a slightly earlier POD.

The Napoleonic goes slightly different and Denmark keep Norway.

Ørsted produce the first pure Aluminium in the 1820s. Denmark was pretty much a major centre for the early Aluminium development and production, because of our cryolite mine on Greenland. Denmark which are somewhat richer in the 1820s keep experiment with it and invest in research in chemistry and physics (Bunsen may end up in Denmark studying and working at DTU), so with Faradays development of the disk generator and Hippolyte Pixii development of the dynamo, DTU begins to experiment with it and improve it. They succeed, but because Denmark have little coal, the Danes go directly to hydro electric generators on the Mølleå in North Zealand in the early 1840s, with the access to "large" amount of electricity, they begin experiments with aluminium smelting with some success, after discovering the amount of electricity needed, they get some Danish capitalist to invest in a hydro electric plant in Norway with it vast amount of water falls near the coast. The project end up as a major success and Denmark-Norway end up a major producer of aluminium, and Denmark-Norway begin a hydro electric industrialisation based on the southern coast of Norway, more or less making the Norwegian Viken region into the centre of heavy Danish industry.

So we have more or less the world 1850 with OTL borders, except Danish Norway. I imagine the 1st Schleswig War doesn't happens. Denmark keeping Norway changes a lot of the factors creating the conflict and Christian VIII death at the point it happened was pretty necessary for the conflict to begin. So we have a Denmark which begin to flood the market with relative cheap aluminium in 1850-60ties. At the same time Denmark are also also able to produce very cheap hydrogen, and have much of their industry in the same region, we also have better developed generators. It's hard to imagine that Denmark won't experiment with rigid airships decades earlier and won't try to place a motor on it. So we may see primitive Zeppelins being produced in the 1860-70ties. Of course Denmark are more likely to see it as a mode of transportation more than a weapon of war, because of the vast territory of the Danish-Norwegian state.

Norway lack the vast iron mines of Sweden, but it's in no way empty, so Denmark will likely also become a major produce of iron, of course the Swedes will likely adopt hydro electric iron/steel and copper production too. So we also have to deal with cheaper steel and copper.

Of course a richer Denmark will likely invest in colonial projects, through I don't see any obvious target outside Ghana and Benin.
 

PlasmaTorch

Banned
It's not just the power, electrolysis and tank of molten stuff, but the rather nasty 'flux', without which Alumin(i)um remains a scientific curiosity.

Even now, you really need 'hydropower' at a budget rate.

By flux, you mean something to prevent the aluminum from mixing with the air? Would this actually be aproblem in the 1850s?

Yeah, you need A LOT of power for alumnium smelting, unless you have geothermal or hydro it's not going to cut it.

Its true they couldn't smelt aluminum in the volumes that we do today. But as long as the downtimers have a reasonably good electric generator, they can do more than enough for a cottage industry.

I think @cgomes have some good point So let's make a attempt at this with a slightly earlier POD.

The Napoleonic goes slightly different and Denmark keep Norway.

Ørsted produce the first pure Aluminium in the 1820s. Denmark was pretty much a major centre for the early Aluminium development and production, because of our cryolite mine on Greenland. Denmark which are somewhat richer in the 1820s keep experiment with it and invest in research in chemistry and physics (Bunsen may end up in Denmark studying and working at DTU), so with Faradays development of the disk generator and Hippolyte Pixii development of the dynamo, DTU begins to experiment with it and improve it. They succeed, but because Denmark have little coal, the Danes go directly to hydro electric generators on the Mølleå in North Zealand in the early 1840s, with the access to "large" amount of electricity, they begin experiments with aluminium smelting with some success, after discovering the amount of electricity needed, they get some Danish capitalist to invest in a hydro electric plant in Norway with it vast amount of water falls near the coast. The project end up as a major success and Denmark-Norway end up a major producer of aluminium, and Denmark-Norway begin a hydro electric industrialisation based on the southern coast of Norway, more or less making the Norwegian Viken region into the centre of heavy Danish industry.

Your scenario is much better thought out than mine was, I applaud you. However, I do have to wonder whether all this could have (theoretically) happened in the 1830s, as opposed to the 1850s...

What kindof scientific advances took place between 1825 when oersted prepared aluminum, and in 1854 when bunsen or deville created the Na/AICI3 process? Is it possible that scientists could have skipped past that intermediate point, and went on straight to the hall-heroult process?

I'm also curious, was electrolysis technology up to the challenge of aluminum smelting by the 1830s? Were the electrical generators of that time solid enough to be applied towards hydroelectric dams?
 
You would see aluminum railroad passenger cars.They'd be lighter and have more internal space,making them more luxurious and more cost effective.
The great ocean liner race would be altered you'd see aluminum superstructures 4 times larger than on the early great liners in OTL,giving a whole new meaning to first class.
All metal aircraft would show up a little earlier, but airship construction would be greatly advanced. A golden age of the airship would actually exist.
 

PlasmaTorch

Banned
You would see aluminum railroad passenger cars.They'd be lighter and have more internal space,making them more luxurious and more cost effective.
The great ocean liner race would be altered you'd see aluminum superstructures 4 times larger than on the early great liners in OTL,giving a whole new meaning to first class.
All metal aircraft would show up a little earlier, but airship construction would be greatly advanced. A golden age of the airship would actually exist.

It alsos likely that heavier than air flight would have an earlier beginning than it did in the real world. The wright flyer used a reciprocating engine, with an aluminum block to save weight. Spotter aircraft might be in service by the time of the spanish american war, if not even earlier.
 
Your scenario is much better thought out than mine was, I applaud you. However, I do have to wonder whether all this could have (theoretically) happened in the 1830s, as opposed to the 1850s...

What kindof scientific advances took place between 1825 when oersted prepared aluminum, and in 1854 when bunsen or deville created the Na/AICI3 process? Is it possible that scientists could have skipped past that intermediate point, and went on straight to the hall-heroult process?

I'm also curious, was electrolysis technology up to the challenge of aluminum smelting by the 1830s? Were the electrical generators of that time solid enough to be applied towards hydroelectric dams?

I'm sorry if I was a little unclear, the improvements in the 1830s was on generators and dynamos. You need a cheap and reliable source of electricity to really mass produce aluminium. So what we see in the 30ties are DTU building a better generator and putting it on a water mill rather than using coal to power it and improve on the water mill design until a reliable hydro electric generator have been developed. So my ideas was pretty much using two decades to build up the necessary infrastructure to develop and make use of the Hall-Heroult process. Denmark-Norway had a edge on some of the other counties didn't have, early research into aluminium, the only major cryolite mine, the vast water power of Norway and ironic a lack of coal, which would make them focus on alternative sources of energy (water).

Of course Denmark-Norway will have to deal with the fact that it's a middle size country, and other countries will outgrowth them in aluminium production. But they're perfect place to push a earlier mass production of the metal and Danish research into chemistry and physics which was pretty impressive by a small state, will be pushed even more, just with a more practical focus.

As for earlier heavier than air travel, I agree, but I don't think it will be by many years. Rigid airships was pretty much a technology which was just waiting for aluminium, planes on the other hand needed better motors, better materials, but also aerodynamic knowledge. So maybe we can see planes earlier, but I doubt more than ten years earlier.
 
Søren Hjorth (Person)

Søren Hjorth (born October 13, 1801 in Vesterbygaard at Kalundborg in the west of Zealand (Denmark) ; died August 28, 1870 in Copenhagen ) was a Danish railway pioneer and inventor. Before Werner von Siemens, he discovered the dynamo-electric principle in 1854 and received the first patent for a self-excited dynamo.

This little description really doesn't do him justice. He was quite the visonary and an important influence on the industrialization policy in Denmark. He would probably be an interesting person to recruit for a potential timeline.


The freely availabe book: "Søren Hjorth, inventor of the dynamo-electric principle" goes a bit more in depth on his life story.
https://archive.org/details/srenhjorthinve00smitrich

Exothermic welding (Technology)

One of the early applications might be exothermic welding, also known as exothermic bonding, thermite welding (TW), and thermit welding, is a welding that employs molten metal to permanently join the conductors. The process employs an exothermic reaction of a thermite composition to heat the metal, and requires no external source of heat or current. The chemical reaction that produces the heat is an aluminothermic reaction between aluminium powder and a metal oxide.
 
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Søren Hjorth (Person)

Søren Hjorth (born October 13, 1801 in Vesterbygaard at Kalundborg in the west of Zealand (Denmark) ; died August 28, 1870 in Copenhagen ) was a Danish railway pioneer and inventor. Before Werner von Siemens, he discovered the dynamo-electric principle in 1854 and received the first patent for a self-excited dynamo.

This little description really doesn't do him justice. He was quite the visonary and an important influence on the industrialization policy in Denmark. He would probably be an interesting person to recruit for a potential timeline.


The freely availabe book: "Søren Hjorth, inventor of the dynamo-electric principle" goes a bit more in depth on his life story.
https://archive.org/details/srenhjorthinve00smitrich

Exothermic welding (Technology)

One of the early applications might be exothermic welding, also known as exothermic bonding, thermite welding (TW), and thermit welding, is a welding that employs molten metal to permanently join the conductors. The process employs an exothermic reaction of a thermite composition to heat the metal, and requires no external source of heat or current. The chemical reaction that produces the heat is an aluminothermic reaction between aluminium powder and a metal oxide.

I didn't know of him, but the Danish wiki tell me that while he didn't study on DTU (as he was lawyer meaning it was KU he studied at), he was often at lectures on DTU especially by Ørsted. So we could easily see him end up accidental being part of the work in develop a better generator, just two decades earlier and at DTU instead of in Scotland. From I can read about him, he had good connection he often moved from different jobs, but it was high prestige job, manager of a factory, CEO of the company buinding the first Danish railroad. So I could easily see if he put his love on the generator earlier, and DTU working on building them, him being part of the project and maybe have him build the first aluminium smelter. Of course as he seem to have interested for different aspect of engineering, a interesting aspect could be if he spend his last years experimenting with electric trains/trams.
 
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