What if Alberta Seperated from Canada

[Abdul Hadi Pasha]

What if in the 1930s,Alberta seperates from the rest of Canada, but dose not join America, although keeps close relationships with them. How would we get this? and what efects would it have in the future.

About the same effect as if Pluto separated from the Solar System.

Seriously, I can't imagine too much impact at such a late date. It would be nice to have a Principality of Alberta, though. Or do you think it would be a Republic? Kingdom? Empire?

 

[fortyseven]

Canada and USA will probably be a sort of super-nation like the EU in the future. It will be subdivided by region-provinces: Northeast (New England states + Maritime provinces), Pacifica (western US, British Columbia, Alaska Panhandle) Old South, Greater Texas, Midwest (eastern Midwest and southern Prarie provinces) and Mideast (Virginia, West Virginia, D.C. Maryland, Delaware), Great Lakes (southern Ontario, southern Quebec, New York, Pennsylvania, western Midwest) and the northern territories, Alaska-Yukon, North Western Territory, and Nunuvut.

 

[Valamyr]

Matt, Stock markets and economies hate/fear uncertainty and therefore continuing threats of Quebec separation has hurt Quebec, especially Montreal, and Canada as a whole. Check fluctuations of the Canadian dollar around the 95 Referendum and recently the election of the Quebec Liberals under Charest.

Many companies have re-located their HQs from Montreal to Toronto and Calgary over the years.

Going back further compare the growth economically and demography of Toronto and Montreal, pre 1970's and post 1970's.

Western Canada and western US will probably form their own nation sometime in the future.

Given that Quebec refuses to this day to recognize or sign the Canadian constitution, such an amandment would change nothing and only embitter relations more, with both sides giving even less credibility to the other, and raising the risks of (surely costly for both sides) long diplomatic deadlocks once independence does happen.

Aside from these worldly concerns, I always wondered, if a part of a nation doesnt want to stay in it (Not refering specially to Canada at this point), why hold on to it so strongly? IMO countries are only as good as the people living in them are willing to make them. Unless you want to build an Empire, having secessionist provinces in the first place is probably a sign that something is wrong and should be changed. Repression doesnt work too well in these cases usually.

 

[Sir Isaac Brock]

Playing Along

Okay now twice now I've typed up detailed analysies of Alberta OTL to educated the misguided here and then provided a reasonable and pausible ATL to match.

Twice it has been eaten. So no more!!!

But this I will say, an independent Alberta would probably be the world's richest nation by GDP per capita in 2004, certainly top 5. As well the highest litercy and graduation rates, and a very long lifespan, and low infant death rate. It would probably win the UN Human Develop Index nearly every year.

Anyone who wants to argue can try, but I'm pissed off and I'll show you no mercy.

 

[NapoleonXIV]

Sorry for my inconseriate remark earlyier.

Just out of pure curiosity, i sthere a time in Albertas history where such an event may have happened?

An East West Canadian Civil War would be interesting

What about the Mackenzie Rebellion being more successful in 1837? and weren't there similar/related problems in the 1870's?

 

[unsunghero]

I was thinking about this thread a little while ago after reading some of Harry Turtledove's 'The Victorious Opposition.' Since the premise is that ALL of Canada (minus Quebec) is occupied, the United States could establish a friendly puppet state out of the western provinces, much as they supposedly do with Quebec. BC and Alberta would have cozy relations w/US because of the oil/gas deposits which are quite large. In the 50s - 2000's population increases a lot as there are no end to jobs available in oil/gas sector of Alberta and northern BC, and Georgia Straight (by Queen Charlotte Islands).
The only question is what would one call BC/Alberta? How about something Latin - 'Republica Campestris et Montium Occidentalis' (The Republic of the Western Prairies and Mountains?). That would be cool

 

[Dave Howery]

But this I will say, an independent Alberta would probably be the world's richest nation by GDP per capita in 2004, certainly top 5. As well the highest litercy and graduation rates, and a very long lifespan, and low infant death rate. It would probably win the UN Human Develop Index nearly every year.

Hey, I don't doubt you... it would be a lot like the OPEC nations... small populations, huge incomes from oil/gas. As a bonus, Alberta would be a rational western nation instead of a ME powderkeg....

 

[Valamyr]

Another interesting scenario might be if natural ressources were a federal sphere rather than a provincial one...

Oil and hydroelectricity would be plentiful for all Canadians, and there would be leftovers to export. More economic integration across the country. More reasons to stay in the country, as everyone would benefit from the others. Unlike in OTL, where 9 provinces out of 10 have the US as their main trading partner rather than the rest of Canada.

Even though I'm quite sympathic to the secession movements in the current context, I definitely can't deny that this would have been a far better choice initially. Even if it meant giving provinces compentences in other areas to make up for it.

Should be noted that Trudean tried for it in the 70s but was rapidly undone by the next government. His decision was TERRIBLY unpopular in the west, obviously. So nowadays Canada has one province with no debt and no taxes. No wonder they want to leave!

 

[Scarecrow]

This Canadian post has a parallel in the early 1930s Australian context, when Western Australia was considering seceding from the Australian Cth, which never occurred since there's no provision in our Constitution for individual states breaking away.

we in WA are not even mentioned in the Constitution because we joined to late. so hypertheticly we COULD secede, but the East would collapse cos of all the money from our mineing industries

back on topic, i remember reading in Stephen Baxters Titan about the US states of Washington, Oregon, Alaska, and the Canadian provinces of BC and Yukon seceding and making their own nation, which was an economic powerhouse...and i have runout of ideas. Titan was acrazy book 'cos it was accurate in what was going to happen, such as the Chinese space launch, the shuttle crashing on reentry and a religous nut from Texas becoming Prez. i think Idaho and Quebec also seceded from their respective countries